Ep. 07: Diversifying Your Income: Cover bands, voice acting, real estate and more with Ashley Dubose

Ashley Full Podcast === Stephen: [00:00:00] On today's episode, we have Ashley DuBose. Ashley and I have known each other for a couple years. We've done a tiny bit of work together, but we really don't know each other that well yet. So I'm really excited to learn from her today, to share her insights with all of you. She's got her hands in a lot of different places. Super talented artist, for one. I can't wait to have you hear some of her music, but also is doing things like Real estate has a diverse amount of incomes and is just really smart and has been in the music scene for a long time. I'm gonna jump to her bio because it'll tell you a lot more than that. Ashley DuBose is a recording artist and performer who is most widely known for her hit single Intoxicated, that has nearly 7 million streams on Spotify, and her compelling audition and performances on season 5 of NBC's The Voice. That was in 2013 where all four coaches turned their chairs for her. Just prior to that, in 2012, she released her first independent full length album, Something More, while juggling college and parenting her then two year old daughter.[00:01:00] Ashley was chosen Best Female Vocalist by City Pages in 2014 and released her second album, Be You, in 2015. In addition to parenting, songwriting, performing, and recording music, Ashley has a bachelor's in mathematics, invests in real estate, does on camera and voiceover acting, and travels nationally performing at private and corporate events with her cover band, North Star. She's performed and collaborated with notable acts such as Prof, Nicholas David, Mike Dreams, rest in peace, and many more. Please welcome Ashley DuBose. Ashley: Thank you. That was a wonderful intro. Stephen: to point out, Nerf Ashley: Very thorough. Stephen: 2015. Because they're Ashley: And I want to point out, North Star is not my cover band, but a cover band that I've been blessed to be a part of since 2015. Stephen: who Ashley: guess they're mine, because they're my family. But I don't want them to hear it and be like, Oh, we belong to you now, Ashley? Stephen: they belong guys? Ashley: [00:02:00] No, but when I perform as Ashley Debo and I'm hired to do long sets, I always throw in some covers of music that I enjoy listening to and that I think,you wanna throw in some music for people who don't know all my stuff. So I do covers Stephen: long sets, I always throw in some covers of music that I enjoy listening to Ashley: two hours? Yeah. But when I perform with North Star, we do four hour gigs. Stephen: hours. But when I perform Ashley: Yeah. With some breaks, there's like dinner portions and breaks for talking and everything. But I'm talking about when I'm hitting, when I'm expected to be on stage for the full two hours. That's long for 90 minutes used to sound long to me, but now I'm like, oh, that's that. Since I've been doing North Star for eight, nine years now, almost minutes is like nothing, but two hours for some reason feel like... that's a lot. Nervous. Stephen: let's see, , We know each other through Cam, your husband, , yeah. Ashley: We, know each other through Cam. Cameron. Yeah. Unfortunately, we're not, we're co parents. we're not married. You know what? Stephen: You know what, Ashley: We were engaged. That's why you would think, you're like, by now they gotta be married. Cause they would, we engaged, we got [00:03:00] engaged in 2021. But we just decided co parenting is the Stephen: why you guys have been doing that forever, co Ashley: We've been co parenting here for, since, we have a four, going on 14 year old daughter. She'll be 14 October 8th. . And we've been co parenting since, for 14 years. And then we got back together and, , got engaged, had our second child, a son. Now we're expecting our third child. So we like to make babies. And we have beautiful, healthy children. and we co parent Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. Cam and I have done a couple albums Ashley: And he loves you, by the way. Stephen: I love him. I love his music. , yeah, it was cool that on this last record you came in and were a part of that and we got to do a little work together and then we've done some stuff for Sync and, yeah. Ashley: Yeah. it was cool that on this last record you came in and were a part of that, and got to include our daughter on that album And then, Brittany Delaney who did the spoken word piece, Rest Her Soul, she just passed a couple weeks Yeah, she was going through a long [00:04:00] battle. She fought so hard and she was so beautiful and talented. So I want to make sure I let you know that because I don't think you knew But she did that, , , a mother's And then,that was a beautiful project. Y'all did an amazing Stephen: job. thanks. We'll link to that in the show notes too, for anybody that's curious to hear. Cameron Mann's project for sure. , and of Ashley: man of the Stephen: stuff, but Let's take it back way before that now that listeners know how we know each other, but tell them about yourself , and where music started and your kind of journey up to this point. Ashley: i've done this a few times. Let me see if I can get it. So People ask me, when did I start singing? And I started singing as a kid in my room, like singing to the radio and stuff. I used to listen to KDWB and KTIS, which is a Christian alternative I have a lot of different influences. So there's top 40 pop in there, KDWB, , R& B, hip hop, gospel, Christian, , contemporary and alternative I really love and appreciate all styles and particularly, , Killing Me Softly. I love back in the day when they used [00:05:00] to play some good R& B. I'm not saying they don't play it now, but music has changed. Killing Me Softly, the Fugees rendition, is originally recorded by Roberta Flack. And I didn't know it at the time, but anyway, I learned that along the way. But when that bridge would come on, I was... what I thought my little seven year old, six year old self was belting. I knew all the words. And so that song really sticks out to me as like a prominent journey in my life soundtrack or music journey. And I sing it a lot now to this day, like as, a cover and shows and so from there I would just, sing in my room. And then one day when I was older, my mom was working at the boys and girls club in St. Paul on the West side. She was the art teacher and, there was a talent show and I signed up for it. And, , the kids that was in her room. One of them must've said, Hey, Miss Yvonne, do you know your daughter? She's going to be singing in the talent show. She's which daughter? She didn't know which one of her three daughters they were talking So she didn't even know that I could sing or like to sing. So anyway, once my mom got wind of the fact that I could sing. She would [00:06:00] ask me to sing for everybody. Oh, my daughter sings. Ashley, come here. Come sing for them. And I'm like, and I would get so nervous. And sometimes I would come up with reasons why I couldn't. I'm sick or whatever. And she'll offer me a dollar or something. And I'm like, okay, I'll sing. So I guess that's when I got started getting paid to sing. And it never stopped. Thank you, Jesus. So she would, encourage me to sing and talent shows at school, the Boys and Girls Club, community events and stuff. later on I would join trio called Imani Mami and Company, which was my friend Imani. Mani Strings on YouTube. She's a violinist, a hip hop artist, a producer. Just she really took it all the way. She lives in L. A. right now and she's doing her She's worked with The Game, Why am I blanking right now? To pimp a butterfly. Kendrick Stephen: Lamar, Ashley: Kendrick So she's done her thing. But, so we started, real young. , she was working with her mom who got her master's, I think maybe in her PhD, but probably her master's, in like music performance and piano. So she really cultivated in her, music [00:07:00] performance. And I got to get a little taste of that being with them and performing around town and they would pay me. I would get like 42 for a show and I thought that was a lot. Stephen: I would Ashley: 42 This is, I was a senior, at Central High School. So I went on,eventually met Cameron. And, recorded my first, little demo tracks in his room. Cause he was, doing his thing as a rapper. I think he started as early as 14. So when we, our paths crossed, he was like we started dating when I was 18, he around that So I had, dabbled in recording myself. Actually, when I was 16, I remember recording a song with a friend of mine named Andy Doe. , it was a song called I'm So Over You, talking about a crush of mine that, Or he wasn't a crush anymore. He knew I liked him But he was like leading me on for all of high school and I was like i'm all over you So I wrote that song at And recorded that before I met cameron But once I met cameron, I was like he taught me how to use pro tools I was recording myself like basic edit like stop record cut move things Put a little [00:08:00] compression on it and I thought I was doing So but I actually had A gift early on looking back. I'm like, I had a good songwriting gift and a good ear , anyway, eventually Worked with mike dreams. That was my first time getting my like Recording with somebody who was actually professionally doing it and putting it out into the world Like I didn't even know how to do that yet So once he had me on a few of his songs and god rest his soul my dreams is my brother like Amazing, talented artist and he passed away earlier this year in January. , also want to shout out. Thank you for acknowledging I asked him like, can you link me with some of your producers? Because I want to make my own music. So he connected me with Wiz and Wiz, . Had a roommate named JT or Jimmy Eazy and they were both producers. Wiz was working in the basement, Jimmy Eazy was, like, they called it Studio A and Studio B. And it was really dope, in Maplewood, off DeSoto, 2007, DeSoto Street. that was such a big part of my journey, just making music with those guys. , , we made, recorded my first album, [00:09:00] Something More, in 2012. And then, Went on to record another album with JT and a bunch of other producers, friends of his,and creatives in the Minnesota community that, came together and put out Be You, which was a really, it performed really well, like people received it really well. By that time I had been on The Voice, so the exposure was there and Star Tribune, put out an article and named it one of the best albums of 2015 so far, and things like that. right after I... Dropped that album like I joined the cover band. Actually, I joined the cover band a month before I Released it. I had a sold out release show and that was really dope with the avant garde Chadwick Niles Phillips of the avant garde we partnered to Release that at Bedlam Lowertown Which is no longer a venue, but it was a really dope spot. so that was really successful. And then I started singing with a cover band. So I never toured the album. I didn't have that set up. I didn't have a manager [00:10:00] who could book me or a booking agent and stuff. So I feel like I had these pieces that just weren't... Placed where I think most people would take a project like that and really try and push it worldwide. the notoriety and the growth and like intoxicated having seven million streams on one platform alone. That's not including like all the other ones on Spotify. that was an organic thing where it just, I put it out, I would like tweet about it and stuff on my platforms, but I never had any Real push so it's cool to see how the music has gone on and take on a life of its own to get out to the people and people gravitate to certain songs and maybe somebody put it on a playlist it's interesting how it goes on and into the world. And Issa Rae, who a lot of people know her now for Insecure, and she had a series on YouTube called First. , her music producer person reached out to me and was like, Hey, we love your music. We'd like to use some songs , for the, Series and I was like here take it like use what you want stupid like at this point I'm like I should have asked for some money for it but I was like use what you want [00:11:00] and so they put like what that was good though too because Sometimes money can be a barrier too, and I think they were like This girl's dope. she's not even asking us for nothing. She's telling us to take what we want. they put five of my songs in their episodes. And so a lot of people will reach out to me and be like, I just, I first heard about you on Easter Eggs first, like back in the day. And I'm like, that's so cool. So now I'm like, I wish you would have used some of my music on Insecure. Stephen: But, cause that's when she really popped, when Insecure went big on HBO. Cause that's when Instagram went big on HBO. But anyway, that's like... That was, yeah, the second album, Ashley: . Yeah, she used music from both albums, so it had to be after reached out. Stephen: remember... Yeah, she used music from both albums, so it would, it had to be access from either side. A pretty organic, I met this person, and then this opportunity, you start with the people around you that are in high school, as most people do, right? And you get a few little experiences, somebody's got a home set up, start, okay, we can record, we can start hearing your ideas back, , it starts to feel tangible, okay, I see how this can work. Ashley: [00:12:00] can at least, it can Yeah. Stephen: one of your first big connections outside of, there's Cameron with his pro tool set up at home and then there's Mike dreams after that was Mike dreams also like at your high school. Did you guys grow up together? Ashley: your high school? Did you guys grow up how you Stephen: So how did you meet him? Ashley: okay. So you guys were friends of Stephen: so friends of friends kind of thing, and then you end up getting to feature with him a little bit, and Ashley: perform around the city, as a collective called stories of glory. And it was, myself, Mike Dreams, Brandon Trevine, Margo Davis, Leonard, Cameron. And we would all perform at the, Loring theater and,fine line. And, put on these shows like as a collective. And so that was, I left that part out. There's so many details. It's like hard to capture, but I just want to make sure I acknowledge Stephen: it's like but I just [00:13:00] wanted to make sure I had it. It's one step and then , builds to the next step. It builds to the next step. Mike then introduces you to some more of his producers. Now you have an even bigger network and the network keeps expanding, keep expanding because you just keep meeting people. it just goes to show a lot of when you're in the community and you're a friendly person and you're easy to like and you're easy to be around and you're a good hang, , , so many opportunities can come from that. And it sounds A ton of the opportunities. not all of them, I'm sure, but a ton of them have been just from your, immediate network. Ashley: Yeah. Then there's word of mouth, right? So when you're doing your thing and then the next person might be looking for an artist to sing a hook or perform at an event or something and now you're on the radar of people and they can start mentioning and suggesting you to other people that are not in your network and that's how it Stephen: in your Ashley: builds. Stephen: walk me through how The Voice came up, like the whole experience. , from deciding to do it, to the [00:14:00] show itself, and then post Ashley: show. Yeah, okay. So there's a woman named Kelly and she's a fan of mine. And I met her at a show that she came to see another Ashley Gold, who's another singer in the community. And we were performing at this spot. I think Tish Jones, it was an event of hers. She put it on, or she definitely was there. So maybe she just performed and I might be mixing up the details, but Tish Jones is an amazing, phenomenal spoken word artist and like humanitarian and stuff. And she's got, Definitely a name in the city. Shout out to her. So I remember meeting Kelly at this event. She's Oh my gosh, you're so amazing. I came to see Ashley golden here. I find another, like Ashley that I've become a fan of, this is dope. So we connected and everything. And we might've exchanged like Facebook information or something. She hit me up one day and was like, the voice is going to be in town. You should try out. And I knew what the voice was. Cause I had. Watched it, previous, like it was newer cause it was only season. Four [00:15:00] at this point. And they were doing two seasons a year. So they were what? Going on year three. So there it is pretty new. I knew about it and she was like, they're gonna be in town in St. Paul. You should audition. And I had , my youngest sister's graduation party to go to that day. And it was the night before when I read her message and I was like, let me go online and see how to do this. And there was a 7:00 AM and an 11:00 AM, slot. , it was the morning of I tried to register. So I probably waited till the last minute, but I think I got her message the night before. So when I finally went on to do it, it was like nine o'clock. 7 a. m. had passed. 11 a. m. was full. So I sent an email and I was like, hey, I'm Ashley DuBose and it's my dream to be a singer and I want to audition, blah, blah, blah. But. I'm wondering how I can still audition because I've missed this, 7 a. m. slot. Then I went on to get myself ready and my daughter ready so we could, get going to the graduation party. Then I got an email back and they said, just come through, just still come and, oh no, did they email me? I don't know. I don't know if I didn't get an email or [00:16:00] whatever, but it was on the way, so I still stopped. I said, it's right here, let me just stop in. And see if I can go and like audition. So it was a really hot day. It was like July and it was like 90 something. And when I got there, I found out the line had just got in the door. It was such a long line. It was wrapped around the building. So the timing, talk about good timing. Like I didn't even have to wait out in the heat. So I had my daughter with me. And, this, bodyguard was like, You got your daughter with you? what is this? You treat this like a job interview. You don't come to an audition with your daughter. he was really going in on me, and I'm like, dang, I'm a young mom, just with... My daughter, like if I had another option, I probably would have put her somewhere else, but not put her somewhere else, like a boarding house or something. But anyway, I was like, I called my brother and I was like, Jeffrey, can you come, get Cameron? Because, I'm at this audition and I explained to him, so it wasn't far from the graduation party. It was like probably five to seven minutes, away. So he came and got her and then, I went on. And was [00:17:00] able to audition and I got to the second round when they, invite you to audition in a more private setting. Now they have an interview and then you prepare more songs. So it's like another pre televised round of auditions. So I got to this next step, and then I had my friend Omid on guitar. , cause the second round you can have an accompanist either track or you can play your own instrument or have somebody And I didn't play an instrument but Omid is amazing and so I asked him to come do it and of course he said yes. I love Omid Huttar h U T A R. shout out to him. We did Killing Me Softly, because I told you, And then And then we did a couple other songs, I can't remember what they were. But, we played Killing Me Softly to a track that starts with a very low bass line, and I couldn't hear the key. So when I started singing in the wrong key. So I got off on the wrong track. Everything else was going good up to that point. This probably was like my second song that And then when Omid came in, I can't remember if he came in to support me at the key [00:18:00] that I was in, or if he was like, Oh shoot, you're in the wrong key, but I'm gonna just play the key of the track. I can't remember which one, but eventually halfway through the song, I get on the right key, but it was like a nightmare in my mind because I knew it. it wasn't like I was just singing along, thinking I was doing great. No, I knew I was in the wrong key, but I was like, oh gosh, like how do I change it? eventually, we synced up with the track, right key. Went on to do the third song. Third song was great. I thought... Okay. I still, I'm still in this, I'm still in That was a bad start, but I think they could see past that and everything. I felt everything else went well. So then the next round, that same day would be to go and do a interview. So now they have you in the room and they're interviewing you cameras and everything. And so I took that as a good sign because they could have said, thank you. That's all we need to see and sent I was like, okay, I got the interview. That's good. So they said, okay. after the interview, they're like, We'll be in touch with you if you don't hear from us by whatever date, then you didn't... So [00:19:00] the date, the hear back by date came and left. Okay. So I knew I didn't get it. And I was like, Oh, it's probably So then when I found out they were going to be auditioning for the next season, which was season five, I said, I felt good about that first audition process. I felt like it was just this little thing I'm going to try again. So they were going to be in Chicago this time. So I said, I could. take a quick little flight to Chicago. That's close enough. I'm gonna do it I reached out because I had two emails now I had the casting directors email from the first time I auditioned in the general info at So I reached out to both and I'm like, Hey, this is who I am. I auditioned last time I got to this round, blah, blah, blah. I was just wondering, I want to audition again for this next season. I was wondering if I can skip the line, so to speak. Cause I already did this part. Like y'all already determined that I was good enough to go to this part. Can I just go straight to this part? the nerve, but I be Because you have to ask because if you don't ask you don't receive so, the casting director [00:20:00] Email got back to me and was like, yeah, I'm sorry You gotta start from the beginning with everybody else, you know that it up and then I was like, okay, I accepted that and then the info at the NBC, the voice, email, somebody there was like, Hey, I'm going to see what I can do. And then I got a notification from them that, Hey, we were able to get you a,appointment basically what I asked is what I was getting, to be able to advance to that round. So I felt so lucky and I'm like, yes, this is good. This is a good sign. So I fly to Chicago. My friend, Ashley Birch meets me out there. And at this time we weren't yet super tight. She was just like such a dope person. I met her through my friend Shandrell. And, she was like, I believe in you. , I'm gonna be there. Like, where are we going when? Okay. I will be there. So the morning of, I couldn't get ahold of her. So she was flying in from a different, city from Kansas city. by this time i'm in my rental car and i'm like Looking I didn't get a response from her. I'm like, okay, I got to take off like I'm sorry, Cuz I [00:21:00] was calling it was going to voicemail turns out she was on the plane So when she touched down like I literally just got in my rental car about to leave. She said I'm here I'm like, oh my god, so I'll go and I get her. She is so sick. She's like it's not a hangover I don't know cuz she had went out the night before but she's like This is something else. I don't know if it was like a bug or what, but she was like leaned over, , she was in bad shape. And like for the fact that she woke up and still decided to come and support me. I'm just forever grateful to her. so I'm like,let's get a hotel because we had some time between my audition time it was like 10 in the morning or something. So I look online and I'm like, I'm trying to save money, So I'm like the nearest hotel, the nearest cheapest hotel. We got a one star hotel and I was like a one star. I'm like, I never stayed in a one star, but it can't be that bad. I'm like, somebody's probably just like giving the hotel a bad review or something. We got there and it was like. We didn't even want to sleep under the covers. We kept our shoes on, but we were tired. and she wasn't feeling well. So we slept over the covers and put [00:22:00] our shoes on. , so we went on, I did the audition. I saw that bodyguard. He was like, I remember you. He was like, you had your daughter with you last time. I'm like, yeah, I remember you too. You gave me a talking to for having her. He's yeah, he's good to see you. did it. So he was all nice and stuff. shout out to him. I don't know his name But anyway, I thought that was cool that like he remembered me from you know This other city when they see like tons of people all the Stephen: tons of people. Ashley: So I went in and , the casting people like remembered me too. Some of them, not all of them. But, I was like, okay, name, face recognition. This is good. This is good. So I did my thing, sang, I sang Diamonds. I sang,a couple other songs I can't think of. I think I probably did Killing Me Softly again. And so three songs I prepared just like the last time, last round. , did the interview. Everything felt good. And they said, wait. about a month away. If you hear back from us by this date, then we'll tell you the next steps. If you don't thank you. That means you're not advancing. It was the last day of the wait to hear back date. And I'm at my computer. I'm a,it [00:23:00] analyst or programmer analyst as Securian financial group. Shout out to them. It's a great company. I really enjoy working for them. They were very supportive of me this whole process I'm sitting there and I'm like, I was holding out hope though. , they said if I don't hear back by this date, then, and I'm not gonna lose hope until after that date, right? I opened my email, , they were like, we're excited to let it was the big news. And so I'm in my cubicle like, I couldn't scream, but I was so happy and I'm like celebrating in my chair and doing a little wiggle . So from there, , It was round, it was multiple pre televised rounds. And then the next step from that point was, we're going to fly you out to LA to meet the producers and you're going to audition for the executive producers. And I was so excited, I had never been to LA before and I had never seen I want to see palm trees before I die. So this is like me fulfilling a bucket list item. So it was wonderful. , that whole process, it was a little bit of back and forth. we had to do the executives, then we had to wait. Wait and see again, [00:24:00] if you hear back from us by this date Then you're moving on to the next round. The next round was choosing your song and Rehearsing it with the band that was going to be supporting you for the live round and then after that you still wait and see whether you're coming back and Stephen: so I guess, so there's the round where you Ashley: So I guess so there's the cattle car round and there's the round where you do another three songs then there's like the interview, if you will, you can consider those if you want, and then there's the fly you out to do the executive,audition, executive producers, then there's, come back and rehearse with the band, and then there's Come back and then, you're working on your choreography and everything where, you're working the stage and they give you pointers. You do wardrobe. They're not evaluating you at that point. now you're, like, assumed to be on the show as long as there's space on the team. So then, They have two days of blind auditions and they're very, they like seclude you. you can't talk to people who,[00:25:00] already auditioned. So you have no idea where things are at when you go into audition and the teams may be,there may be like three spots left. They don't want you to know any of that and they want to know, they don't want you to know who made it, who didn't, you don't know any of Stephen: So you could have gone through working with the band, choreography, wardrobe, all of it, and still not Ashley: still not been able to be on the Yeah, not at that point, it wouldn't have been because they cut you, it would just be because they're picking and choosing who to put in front of the judges when, but then once the judges pick their, I think it's 12 people on a team, then there's no more space. So you could have been amazing, and you just didn't get You just didn't get on there. So then those people, unfortunately, it's so heartbreaking to think about that because lots of people that I met were in that predicament where they didn't get to audition at all because the teams filled up and I auditioned on the last day on the, no, it wasn't my Sorry. I'm thinking about the knockout rounds. I found [00:26:00] myself in that position where I got knocked out by Tessanne Chin, who went on to win the show. Shout out to her. She's awesome. And I was rooting for her the whole way after I got knocked off, but they have saves and other coaches can save you and say, I want you to be on my team. And the coaches were like, man, we would like, especially Blake. He loved me. it was a moment, but he didn't have any saves. Nobody else had any saves except for my, Coach Adam Levine, but he couldn't save me back to So I was in that predicament where it's that's how the cookie crumbled. So anyway, if they would have put me up against her earlier in the day, I could have got a save, So that's where it's like probably producer, pulling strings and Doing things, because they know the probability, they knew I wasn't going to win my match. the fact that put me up when all the saves were gone, they probably were ready for me to be off the show, for whatever reason. That's fine too. but there's like a good seven rounds before you see people on the they start off with [00:27:00] 48 people the I made it to the top 32. So they start off with 48 people and then they cut it down after the battle rounds. I won the battle round and then they cut it down even further after the knockout round. I didn't make it to the knockout round, so I survived two rounds off on Stephen: Okay, you're off at that point, but obviously it's just such a huge accomplishment to get on the show. And there's all of the local press and there's all the excitement around it and all that kind of stuff. Walk us through what the aftermath looks like. obviously there's a lot of benefits, but there's gotta be a lot of Ashley: okay. so like I was off the show for a while before I could like, I wanted my family and friends to get the excitement of not knowing. as they're watching live with everybody else and they tell you, you sign a, agreement not to tell anybody the results of , your show, but people can deduce, especially the people you live with, wait, you're here and we're watching, so you didn't make it, but when it initially happened, I, cause there was a lot of stop and wait, so they don't know, they could [00:28:00] still think I might be able to go on, but, so it was a lot of secrecy. So I could honor and not only honor the agreement, but just honored like the excitement that I wanted my friends and family to have while they're watching the show. And then once it was out that I was off the show that was in October, but like the reality like I was really off the show in August, you know what I'm saying, but it didn't air until October. I started working on my music right away because I was like, I want to drop an album, I want to capitalize on this opportunity. So I put out like an acoustic version of my first album , , that was music that was already written. And that was a way to get content out there, reintroduce some content. And oh no, I dropped that before I signed the,I dropped that beforehand. Sorry. So rewind. I dropped an acoustic version of something more because I wanted to put some music out and I didn't want them to have claims to my music because the certain things you sign, if you, release anything or write anything while you're on the show, they can that's just how the agreement went. Once I was like out [00:29:00] of the agreement period, I think that's when I started like working on my next album, which was Be You and that got pushed out and that didn't actually come out until 2015, but it was supposed to come out in A lot of interviews, , a lot of performances and things where like I did a show at Honey, which is no longer around. I feel like I've said this so much in this interview. Stephen: lot changed after COVID Ashley: Yeah. So Honey went down with COVID, but that was one of my favorite places to perform. I did my album release show for something more there. I did, a couple other like of my own productions there. And it was just like. John, who was the booking agent there, he was always so gracious wonderful to work with. And it was like the right size where you could feel like you could pack out a show and the vibe was like intimate, like a speakeasy and stuff. Anyway, I remember I did a show there and there was a line around the corner and I'm like, they're here for me? Like people were like, it was crazy. I had never,Experienced that before. So that was cool, 'cause [00:30:00] obviously with , the name recognition and like the exposure and people, getting to hear you and know you and like you now there's more people to come to the shows and more people to wanna book you and, so it was like busy in that way. You so it was like busy in that way. You start doing home recordings, you meet other producers, you start making a full length record, you go on The Voice, you have success there, you make another record, you're getting hometown press, you're getting voted best vocalist, you're getting all this stuff, right? Stephen: Momentum, momentum. But then shortly after the second album, you join up with the cover band, right? , where did that decision come? What was the reasoning for doing that? Ashley: I got the call. They were looking for a second female singer. They had two male singers, and a female singer. They wanted another one and someone recommended me. And they reached out and I was like, Oh, the opportunity to perform and get paid and it's like a regular thing. Sounded good to and be able to travel. Yep. It sounded like a good opportunity [00:31:00] I hadn't traveled to perform up until that point. I was mainly performing in Minnesota. So I think that was what appealed to me about the opportunity. when they said four hours, I was like, the longest set I was doing up until that point was like 45 So I was like. My voice like how am I going to do four hours? Stephen: and for a long time, I would leave those shows just hoarse. but I build up stamina over the years. but anyway, yeah, that's what appeals to me. the opportunity to travel, But anyway, Ashley: I'm like, I never had anybody ask me to be a part of something that allows me to not have to do all the work and booking and everything and I get, I'm able to just come, sing, get paid and they'll fly me around. that sounded Stephen: yeah, definitely. I want you to talk more about the cover band experience because you do music at least part time, but almost full time at this point in terms of the amount of work that you're doing and that sort of stuff. and we'll get into some of the other lines of income and stuff like that, but the cover band's a big piece of [00:32:00] that. And it's a great way to have, to maintain a career as a musician. And I know several people that do it, you being one. Walk us through what that looks like. What a typical year in the cover band is, Ashley: Okay. I will say when I first started, I was embarrassed about it because I thought it was cheesy. I felt like I was a wedding singer and like I went from being on The Voice and wanting to be this like well known, original artist to singing songs that personally I feel are very cheesy weren't like representative of me as an artist. And so I didn't really appreciate it for years and I wouldn't post about it cause I was like, I don't want people to be like, actually the artist is not like doing covers and like wearing these sparkly dresses and stuff. that's not even my brand, but, I grew to appreciate it, especially after COVID. But yeah, I felt like I want to be doing my own These people don't know who I am. How are they? How am I gonna? brand if they don't know who I am by name and they [00:33:00] can't hear me sing my music Like I'm doing these artists songs who've already made it big, But the thing about it is you're able as an entertainer because there's like you're there's artists there's entertainers and cover band singers are both because there's an art form in Capturing the essence and the emotion of somebody else's Writing and songs and being able to portray that and you're entertaining people because you're doing it at a high level like obviously like you got to be good if you're not going to last too long, but People are having a good time. They're watching you perform songs that they're familiar with So they're not like sitting there like just trying to learn the song or like hearing the song for the first time They're like already into it from the first four bars because they know this song So you're performing songs that have been tried and true instead the test of time you're still entertaining and you're still being an artist. You're just not able to Do your original work, but you can sing songs in an original way. You can take an interpret it to a certain extent. [00:34:00] but I didn't appreciate it. I didn't look at it that way. I like, the money and everything, but I was I want to sing my own song. I want to, so I was bringing business cards to the gigs. I've stopped doing that. But I thought I had failed. But as I continued on in my journey in life and in music, I realized that it's a blessing to be able to use my gift to sing, to perform and be able to get paid to do it. And when I look out into the crowd of people and they're just having a great time and everybody always comes up afterwards. Or a lot, not everybody, but a lot of people always come up afterwards and be like, you guys were so amazing. You're the best wedding band. I've been at a million weddings and this was like the best. And they just have such a good time. And the bride and groom, are so happy. And we're part of these people's biggest day of their life. One of the biggest days of their life. That's pretty important. And that's pretty like I now appreciate it. And then when, COVID hit my entire performance [00:35:00] calendar. Both cover band and original,requests for Ashley DuBose, the artist, all got pulled off the calendar. And I sat there, and I was like, dang, make money? Am I ever gonna perform again? dang, I didn't appreciate the band. just when we were able to come back to it, I just had a brand new for everybody in the band, for, what I do. And it's funny because my bandmate Katie, she would Ashley, there's going to be a day where we can't perform anymore. And you're going to be sad about that. In other words, enjoy, be grateful. This is a blessing. Like how many people get to do how many singers who are actually amazing get to get on stage, get paid to travel. we've stayed in four or five star hotels. Stephen: This Ashley: Yeah. We've stayed in two star hotels, but we've had some really cool experiences seeing some parts of the world that like, otherwise I would never have any business going. Stephen: that like,otherwise I would never have any business going. it's been a great experience.Or more extravagant or whatever. Ashley: okay, so we're managed by a company [00:36:00] in New York they have just really big budget clients, right? People with money. Like one guy, he was like the director of Avatar and Men in Black and like I want to say Star Wars, not Star Wars, maybe not Star Wars, but like he was like a really big, Name in Hollywood and director in Hollywood and his stepdaughter was getting married So we did her wedding and Robin Thicke sang three songs and we sang back up for Robin Thicke There was another who's the guy that sings be the Phil something it Phil Collins? but we did a birthday party don't think it was a surprise birthday party, but we did do a surprise wedding most recently where the guests were surprised They didn't know they were being invited to a wedding some people might have been It was a wedding, but we did that. That was fun. We couldn't talk about it. Cause it was an Aspen and Aspen is a really small town and you never know who knows somebody. So we went to this guitar shop to get a piano for Ryan, the keyboardist to be able to, practice his [00:37:00] songs. And I'm thinking they say, don't say anything about the wedding when you're on set, I like when I'm on set, but On site. Cause you don't want like guests to get tipped off. They meant don't say anything at all. Cause this town is small, but I was like, yeah, so we got this surprise wedding that we're doing tomorrow at this private residence and everything. And wouldn't you know, the word got back to the band leader and was like, you guys, reminder, don't say anything because this is a very small town. And I'm like, how did he find out? what? So it was crazy. Like, what? Stephen: So Ashley: Okay. Yeah, that's who it was. So he, we did a birthday party where he was, the special guest and he was playing his, originals and stuff on So we got to see and hear him live. The weddings are so extravagant. And for me, I sometimes I don't even concern myself with who's who I used to be like, who's this one? Who's that? Like we didn't like Olympic and Olympic skaters wedding. it's more the beauty of these weddings. Like they're like multi million dollar weddings. not all the time, but they put a lot of money into the decor and the flowers [00:38:00] and the venue. And it's just like this dream wedding. Like you walk into a. catalog wedding and you're like, this, like in the stage decked out. And it's really cool to, be a part of such a spectacular occasion. Stephen: Yeah, So what about like the nitty gritty, , the day to day of the cover band, like what are the logistics like, , how many gigs do you do a year on average? Do you get to pick and choose? , are you required to do everything that they throw at you? Like how often are rehearsals? How does all of that work? Ashley: I think it's about an average of 40 gigs a year. the wedding season is approximately April through, I'd say. November the bulk of our gigs being summer months October also, October and September. So like basically between June and October, it's like a lot of them. And , there's some other scattered dates throughout the years on the other sides at this point we've been working together so frequently. We really don't have to rehearse unless we have we had a. Gig recently where we had like maybe [00:39:00] 10 songs in Spanish. So we had to make sure yeah, one of our singers She's puerto rican and she speaks spanish, but everybody else we had to really work at that and make sure we were like on point because it was a I think it was a colombian Bride or colombian room one of the two were colombian. The other was jewish. Basically whenever we're doing something like really You know, a bunch of new songs that are really intricate, whether it's like a new language or like a really funky tune or something, it'll call for a rehearsal for the most part. We've done so many gigs and so many songs so many times that we know we just need to know what we're playing. Listen to it. We're all professionals. Learn it. And then we run the special tunes at the soundcheck. So we'll use that as our, rehearsal. It'll Stephen: and everybody's good enough that's enough. yeah. Ashley: Usually. , yeah, so that's pretty much what it is. And if we're doing a gig out of town, we usually travel the day before, come back the next day. So it'll be like a time commitment. Stephen: do you get options like, in terms of scheduling and [00:40:00] they say, Hey, we got a gig. Ashley: they would like to, us to prioritize, the cover band. But if something comes up and, if I get booked for something and it's enough in advance,two months out, they're usually okay with finding a sub. the musicians can find subs a lot easier than the frontmen because we're like the face of the band and, they don't like to book based on a lineup. And then when the day comes, the lineup has changed, especially like there's a booking that the couple really wanted us, like they really like my sound or something, it'll be pretty hard to like, go back and be like, yeah, she's not going to be there. So it is a commitment. Yes. Stephen: If there's now, Ashley: we started off four front men. now we have five, so three women, two men. And depending on,the booking, sometimes they'll have all three of the women or sometimes just two of us. so either four or five. Frontmen. Then we have a core four, so bass, guitar, drums, and And then we'll add [00:41:00] on, horns and strings as. Desired by the Stephen: keys. And then we'll Ashley: Yes. our drummer is now like between Minnesota and Las Vegas. So he'll fly from Las Vegas to Minnesota to wherever our destination is, depending on the circumstance. But basically everybody's based in Minnesota. When we travel and we have add on instruments, then they'll book locally, or more local, when we do gigs in like Aspen, they'll hire, a horn section from Denver. strings from, the nearest city, Stephen: It's the nearest city, They have about 38, I think, maybe. Last time I checked. Ashley: Yes, they have about 38, maybe? Last time I checked, Stephen: they do events all around the world. I I did a Ashley: they do events all around think they did Michael Jordan's Yeah, I did a wedding in 2016, think it was in London. they've done Some Latin American, country, but I wasn't on and then we did Anguilla recently Maui, but [00:42:00] that's the United States, but you Stephen: of galas Ashley: off the mainland Stephen: coming Ashley: I still perform solo. I have a lot of galas coming up this month I do a lot of community events and things. I haven't put my own event on in a while pretty much since I Was pregnant with my last child so it's been about two years since I put on my own like Ashley to both entertainment presents Yeah, my, my focus have just been, when I put on events, I think it's like a feeling of what prompts me Maybe a feeling of, I haven't been doing anything. I need to stay active but I've been keeping active enough with performances between the cover band and like getting hired for, other people's events that. There's not really that space or that feeling of I need to do something in this time period for myself to stay active. So there hasn't been that [00:43:00] real need or availability. yeah, I haven't created much. I feel bad about that. Like I haven't had that, creative juice flowing or whatever you want to call it. I'm like, I don't know what to talk about. I think about a lot of stuff, but I don't know what I want to put in song. I think my mind is just way too analytical right be creative putting my thoughts some clever, lyrical analytical, because of some of the other stuff you're doing. Just the other work. I've always been analytical, Stephen: you have a BA in Ashley: yeah, I know, right? So if I start to come up with something, I think myself out of it. Stephen: cares? why would anybody want to hear this? Or it's too literal or it's, I just, I think myself out of creativity. do you think that applies to like just thinking yourself out of pursuing opportunities or taking risks and that sort of thing too? Ashley: I do that too. I've wanted to move to LA forever, but I think, there's already a million people there who are amazing at what they do and are still trying to get the Stephen: analytical thing of [00:44:00] what are my You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What are my eyes? when I get out there, Do I even have the stamina anymore? Or like the desire to try and stand out? at this point I want to go because the weather is nice. And like the vibe and the culture, And just like having a new life experience where, I'm not driving down the same streets and highways like newness. And maybe there's opportunity that can come up because whenever I am there, I feel like really cool serendipitous things always happen, but cool serendipitous things happen here too. So maybe it's like opportunity will follow me hopefully, as long as God allows, cause I, I don't want to sound cocky when I say that. so yeah, I've thought myself out of taking that Early on in my recording days, I had a client that was crazy and I could do an entire podcast on this client and how insane he was, but he was, yeah, I have a lot of stories about this guy. we had a conversation once and he always was doing crazy stuff, in terms of trying to get noticed and stuff like that. [00:45:00] And he would say, I want you to. Like email somebody for me and can you email the president of the twins and tell them to play my song or like Some random thing, I would just always roll my eyes like that's not gonna work because some of it was just you know Not a great idea , it still sticks with me today and I remembered it when you brought up being analytical. He said, you're too smart. You'll never be successful Ashley: that when you Stephen: you'll just, yeah, because you'll just think your way out of everything Stephen: and it's a real thing. And so if anybody out there is listening can relate to that, where , reasoning with yourself of why not to do things and stuff. But a lot of the music industry is about just, Jumping into the unknown and doing stuff that you aren't sure about and pushing forward, and that stuck with me and I've tried to think about, when is it a good thing to be analytical because there are plenty of reasons to be analytical. but there are times where. you just got to take risks and big or small. Maybe it's a risk, like moving to LA, but also maybe it's a risk of just getting outside of your bubble and collaborating with new people. Maybe it's, trying a [00:46:00] new type of promotional thing, deciding that you're going to be more active on social media. You're going to do those TikTok trends. You're going to do whatever, like things that you might just feel uncomfortable about, or maybe it's switching your sound up, maybe it's just trying to. find new bandmates, something like that. those are all uncomfortable things, , and you can talk your way into the more comfortable route pretty easily, but something that you have to, self reflect on a somewhat regular basis to decide, like, where am I? Am I playing it too safe right now, or am I pushing myself ahead? I've always heard it said, if you're not doing something that scares you a little bit, you're probably not pushing far enough, Ashley: a little probably not pushing far Yeah, and I'm saying this for myself. Because I'll find Stephen: I know, you're preaching. Yeah, and I'm saying this for myself, as much as anything, because I'll find that I get into a, this is comfortable. I know what I'm doing, I've got my routine down, this is the way I'm running my business, and so on. And. that voice will creep up in the back of my mind again of do you think you could do more? Or make [00:47:00] something better? Or even, , what can you cut out? , what's not adding to anymore? what are the things that you're doing that really aren't worth it, but you're just doing them because they're comfortable? , You know for me this podcast is one of those things if like I've had the idea for years, but it's a lot of work and it's somewhat uncomfortable to put yourself out there and do all those kind of things and Pushing forward, whether it lasts for years or a short period of time who knows but he's gonna try Ashley: yeah, because then you don't have to have that podcast idea that you never did. No, yeah, you're right. Like I'm the poster child for. staying comfortable. that's like , my vibe. Cause I, I look at other people and I'm what's come out of people made it to where I think I want to go, what's come up there. and I'll just give myself a bunch of reasons why it's I'm good right It's Stephen: To some extent that also might be true, because the end goal isn't always like I need to be the best at this or I need To be the most known for this [00:48:00] or fill in the blanks of fame and fortune Sometimes the goal is I feel fulfilled I have a creative outlet. I'm doing what I want to do whether or not it's Anybody that you know, or whatever, that may not be the goal. , we all have our own reasons. So I think, when I say about the self reflection and looking into these things, it's about making those decisions for yourself, not based on what other people would decide. But what do you think is best for you, and if you feel fulfilled, then that is. Ashley: what do you think is best for you? And if you then that is. I'm more in a place of feeling very comfortable with myself than I have been in previous years. I don't know if that has to do with getting older, having another child, having been in a relationship where I've felt, appreciated enough, and having that validation from external. Or being in a comfortable financial situation where I'm like, I don't want [00:49:00] to take certain risks anymore because I have more to lose. Exactly. So there's different reasons maybe for why I feel in a place of comfort, but that's not to say that I don't see that there's growth that can be had. Cause I, I need to also , you know, work, therapy, maybe even challenging myself to create from a place of just creating, because I have the gift and not because I want to make the next hit or get somebody's attention or, , become a world known singer, but just for the simple fact of, it was something that I enjoyed at one point and I was doing before I even had anybody listening. So how do I get back to that? , how do I put creation and music back in my life in that way, versus a means to an yeah, but I appreciate what you shared, and I will be self back Stephen: in my in that way, versus a means to an what you I[00:50:00] will be self reflecting. the diversification of income. when we were talking before this interview, you shared that you're also in real estate. And, I know that you used some of the money that you were making from doing music to save up and invest in something outside of the music industry that would give you some more stability. Can you talk Ashley: a little bit about that so I own three duplexes in addition to my single family home that I live in. I think it's so important for us, especially as creatives who don't have a nine to five or like a more secure,401k or like a plan for their financial security down the line. because it's, we're in a business that's very, up and down, you might be in high demand now, but what happens when the call starts slowing up and so I realized that I need to, and especially being a mother and having a family, I need to make sure that I'm setting ourselves up for, a more secure financial future. I started listening to a guy who teaches about multifamily investing. And at first [00:51:00] I was looking into buying a home just to own a home because I know, owning a home you can build equity and smart financial decision is what I thought of it as. And I was. I was working at, Securion when I first started looking into it, but I kept getting to a certain point and not going all the way through, like through with it to buy, like I would get pre approved, but then I wouldn't take the next step to look around and buy a house. So I would start and then I not go all the way. And then then I met with a real estate agent who has her own team and I think she's a broker actually, she's a broker. And she said, Your first purchase, I would highly recommend it be a duplex. Because you can build equity quicker, you'll have that rental income coming in, and it reduces your mortgage expense because, that's helping pay down your mortgage, and so from that point, I started looking for duplexes. And then that's when this man Julian Gordon came into my world somehow. And I signed up for his teacher for his multifamily, movement classes and teachings and stuff. And I would tune in. I wasn't super consistent. I didn't even do the entire, Modules and everything because I'm like the person that [00:52:00] I'm ready to just jump in like I don't want to read everything first I'm like it takes so much time. I just want to do it for better for worse so now I went ahead and bought my first property and then I bought my second one and then Then I brought my bought my single family and then I bought a fourth property and all within the span of about a year and a half Oh, wow. Yeah, because once you have Income from, your, not only your job, but like your rental. when you go to get a mortgage, they're counting all your income. it's actually not that hard to get more properties. Except for once you buy your second property, it's considered an investment. And you need to put 25 percent of the value down. So you do have to have some funds, some reserves saved up. But that first property to get into, you really, if you're going to live in it, you only have to put 3. 5 percent down if you get an FHA loan. it's easier to get into that first property. Then once you save up some money, or if you already have some money saved up, if you come into some money or whatever, then you can take... That money and use your income from Whoever's renting out at your current duplex, then you [00:53:00] say You can either stay in that one or you can even move to the next one and put three three and a half percent down On that second one instead of 25 percent you can that game people do that all the time by living it for a year Move to the next one, living it for a year, move to the next one. So each time, you're not having to put so much money into it. And all the while, that income coming in from the units you're renting out is considered when you go for your mortgage, on top of your, regular income. it's very possible. It sounds wow, and it is wow, but it's possible. And, I was lucky enough to have some money that was just sitting, and I'm like, I could just sit and sit and not do anything and make anything. Or I could put this money in this house. I just moved my money from TuneCore and and some funds that were in the bank, sitting making nothing, and I put it into the house. So now, I have three doors, no, not three doors, three properties, six doors. And,It's work, I had a crash course in being a landlord in the first two years. I shared it with you, but one of my properties, had a fire incident. And so it took a year over a [00:54:00] year to get repaired. And, I luckily have insurance that. Replace that lost rental income. But after that was depleted, I was paying a mortgage that I wasn't making any money on. So things got a little tight for a second, but now it's about to be done and I can rent it out again where I could sell it. So I'm at that point where I'm trying to make that decision. But I think real estate is a great, source of building wealth and, financial security, you gotta buy smart. You can't just go in blindly and just buy something. It helps to have some teaching and, somebody like a mentor or, if you're following somebody on YouTube and, or coming to a class or whatever, to know how to select homes so you're buying right. But yeah, that's been, one mode of income for me, source of income. And then I got my real estate license because I was like, I know this whole process. Why am I? I could be saving money in negotiating my own deals and having more flexibility and access instead of having a real estate agent have to be like the go between for me, because after buying four properties, [00:55:00] I felt pretty like experienced. So I was like, let me get my license. So the next property I buy. I can get buying agent fee from the seller because the seller pays the buying agent a fee. And then the next property I sell, I don't have to pay an agent to do it. I can do it myself. So that was the motivator to get my realtor's license or my real estate license. Realtor is a member of the Realtor Association, which I am, but I need to clear with my words. but now I'm really excited to help other people who are, who want to buy their first property. And I'm always going to recommend that they buy a duplex first, especially when you're coming from not having a lot. it just helps you get your foot in the door and it manages the expense of owning a home a little better when you have a single family, everything's on you and nobody's, you're not bringing money in. You just put money out, So anyway, so now I'm excited to help other people. By Stephen: money in, you're just putting Ashley: In [00:56:00] March of 2023, So, I've only had it for six Stephen: anyway, so 2023. In July. Ashley: In July, 2021 is when I bought my first property. Stephen: Congrats. that's pretty awesome. I'm sure, yeah, long term, it's a great move. as long as you can avoid all the fires, Ashley: For real, literal, literally and figuratively. Stephen: Yeah. Ashley: Eventually I can... I'm gonna hire a property management so I Are Stephen: you doing all that on your own? Wow. That's impressive. I already know that's a ton of Ashley: you a lot of phone calls Yeah. Yeah. I've had to mediate between tenants. Yeah. Because they're living in such close proximity to each other in Stephen: that's a little bit of a segue to one of the other questions that I've had, which is, You've been in charge of your career, right? Ashley: And for many years, and you've been on big stages, big opportunities, all this kind of stuff. You've bought properties, you're in the thick of the business, right? business, Stephen: right? And, when it comes to [00:57:00] negotiating gigs and contracts and all that stuff, you're handling all of that as well? Ashley: The short answer is yes. when I do the cover band stuff, I'm just hired on. the contracts are negotiated between the clients and the management But I have, I've had to go to bat for my, myself in regards of my pay and like that. over the years. so yeah, I mean I have, A friend who I can call on, he's a former artist I've had to have him stand in for me and represent me as my managerial assistant because as a woman and as an artist, like double whammy when you're trying to like negotiate contracts, like automatically when they, when somebody sees that an artist doesn't have management, I am of the mindset that it gives the indication that the artist might not be as valuable or you can get the artist for a, a cheaper deal or whatever the case may be. There's been times where I felt like in this situation I'm gonna have you talk to them and negotiate things and we'll talk like you know what I want But you'll be [00:58:00] my mouthpiece. but for the most part, I'm the one definitely drafting all the contracts and making sure I'm clear on all the terms that you know we have so we have clear expectations on both ends as an artist and a client and then communicating that down the line to whoever else needs to know whether that's my band or my accompanist and Stephen: things like that. yeah. Yeah. Was that mostly self taught or was this other friend, acting as a mentor along those lines too? Ashley: Was that mostly self taught or was Actually, I've gotten burnt when I had a contract in place where I didn't get a penny of my money. somebody straight scammed me and I was opening up for a national act. And I guess they didn't get the money that they thought they were gonna get for the gig. And I had, in the contract that I was supposed to get my deposit. or no, I didn't make that contract. Somebody else made that contract for me. But, he was not there when the event... took place. And my stylist had, who was a friend of mine, she went to [00:59:00] go get the money from the person, but they had a reason for, Oh, my partner's on his way with the money kind of thing. So I ended up getting up on stage doing my show after the performance, the promoter was nowhere to be found. So that was like a 2, 000 gig that I got And I was so mad and I said, never again. So to this day, 90. percent of the time. I require I need a contract, I require a deposit up front, I don't care if the gig is 7 days away, I need half now and half later. Now sometimes I'll be lenient on that, especially if it's an establishment that I trust that they're not gonna, but. I had to learn , what to put in a contract, sometimes you get to, , a situation you're like, oh shoot, we should have specified that, we should have made sure this was understood, or even learning through the North Star gigs, what, the kind of accommodations we get will inform me if I'm being booked out of state, what to require. [01:00:00] For an out of state gig, lodging, ground travel, we need to discuss all these points because It might just be a situation where you're more experienced than the person booking you, this is a real life example I was more experienced in event, like performance contracts than like a CEO of a company and they were putting on this event and had well intentions, but the details really mattered because when it came down to it, I was still learning. Oh, next time I got to do this and this. So it's basically like trial and error learning from experience what's really important to having a contract. And what's nice to have, like a rider and we want to make sure we have a meal. We want everybody to be fed, stuff that you might not think of until you have had that experience and realize that's even possible. You're like, oh, we're performing for an event where all of their guests are eating. They can probably put some meals aside for us. Let's go ahead and make that a request. Yeah, Stephen: I think the takeaway there is that, , obviously trial and error sometimes is [01:01:00] just what you have to do, but if you can,do some research online, there are so many, templates, and you know there's ChachiPT which can help with contracts, which is obviously not , gonna be as good as a lawyer, but it's better than nothing. if it's a, if it's a kind of a deal where, the money is such that a lawyer makes sense, then go ahead and do that. But if you're just trying to, cover your ass kind of deal, yeah, then ChachiPT is probably gonna get you pretty Ashley: Yeah, actually the contract that I have now, a lawyer did draft it for me. , I had a team that I was able to tap into a resource that had free legal assistance for artists through, I think it was Springboard for the Arts, which is based in St. Paul. At one point was like just drafting it from like a template online, and then I had a lawyer put one together. Now I just edit that one Stephen: , Yeah. you can do your research, but you can also ask people, , ask people that are a little bit farther ahead of you that, have had this sort of experience You know offer to take somebody out to coffee pick their brain and you can learn a lot that way and that's part of what this podcast is for us to encourage people to share and to connect and to learn [01:02:00] from each other because What one person what you may not know another person maybe is done a million times and it's no big deal for them to just Point you in the right direction to oh, we'll check out this book or check out this online resource or whatever call this other person because they know even more about it than I do and Ashley: I actually took this out to coffee years ago and after working with her a couple of times and I felt comfortable enough to ask her , how do I do this? And she gave me some resources and, look into this company for like college gigs and bookings and different things like that. She asked me for a list of questions. It's really important if you're gonna do that, especially for people with, who are like really busy. just assume everybody's busy. It's good to have a list of questions ahead of time of what you want to get out of that conversation. If you have specific questions, send them ahead of time even, so that they have time to look into something that they might not be able to answer on the spot. So yeah, that's a good tip to take people who are already in the industry, maybe out to lunch or coffee in exchange for giving you some insight. Stephen: you can save [01:03:00] yourself a lot of headaches potentially with just a short conversation. even if it's not a direct answer, it can at least be making sure you're not heading in a completely wrong direction. there's a, just a couple other little things I want to touch on quickly, and you can go as in depth or keep it brief if you want, but I'm curious about how you got into the voice acting and the actual acting and what that role is in your career right now. and I'm also curious about, 2012, and Ashley: I took an acting class in college back in 2012, and it was called auditioning. And then one of the requirements in this class was to take your skills or the tips and things that you've learned and as a capstone or a final, assignment, go out and actually audition. And I waited to the last minute and then I got on minnesotaplaylist. org, which is the website where you can find out different plays and, things that are. Auditioning and, the Guthrie had a production I had to find something that worked with my schedule and like this production or this audition lined up. So I really didn't know how world [01:04:00] renowned or like how like prestigious the Guthrie was or even what I was auditioning for. I was going into this I'm trying to get this assignment done, not land the role, but I landed the role. it was a non speaking essential or like an extra, but so you're an essential, you're essential to the play, but we're not going to pay you very much. And you're not going to speak, but it was a great experience. I got to see all the behind the scenes. I was a part of all 53. shows and all the rehearsals and everything. Like I was in the blade.a streetcar named desire. How could I not name the production? A streetcar named desire in 2010. My daughter was less than a year old and I was in school full time. I was just moving and shaking. Stephen: set and I'm like, Ashley: how Oh, yeah, I wasn't done. that led to me meeting other artists on set and I'm like, how do I do this? Like y'all are doing this it was just one of those conversations where here's some agencies to reach out to send them your resume, send headshot. So I went and sent out like the most [01:05:00] unprofessional, Cell phone headshot. I had it blown up at Walmart, not Walmart, Walgreens. Got it like on an 8x8. It was back when, and nothing was digital. Everything was physical. So I stapled my, resume to the back, like old school style. Anyway, and I sent it to a bunch of agencies. And so now I'm represented by five agencies, but I'm not super active with all of them. I'm with Nuts, Wayman, Agency Models and Talent, Karen, and More talent. So I'm like, with all of them, I'm on all their rosters, but I only really do a lot of work with Agency, Nuts, So anyway, long story short, that's how I got representation. Then, a couple years down the road, Laura at Nuts, she owns Nuts, and she's amazing. She said, Ashley, you have a really nice voice, have you ever thought of voiceover? didn't even know what it was. So she sent me some information. I came in to, do a meeting with her and got Stephen: know, either Ashley: Oh, voiceover. So voiceover is like when you're reading a script that's going to be, either synced to a video or it's going to air on the radio. It's going to be in a [01:06:00] commercial, , or, now a lot of things are like internet usage and things like, when you're watching YouTube or whatever and you see A commercial come on and there's a voiceover, that's what voiceover is. people do audiobooks. I haven't done that yet. I think that'd be fun, but that's a lot of work. But anyway, Industrial training videos, i've done radio i've done cub is a A repeat client of nuts and they asked me to do their commercials. So you'll Be listening to C. U. B. or I'll get a phone call if somebody's listening to or watching TV and they're like, is that you on the C. U. B. commercial? Oh my God, I just heard you. Mall of America, like healthcare, like United Healthcare, like just random stuff that they need a warm voice or are really excited. like you, it's just acting with your Stephen: with your voice. Okay, voice. Okay, screw Ashley: All right, Stephen: I'm Ashley: I need a script. cause now I'm just like making stuff up. hold on, give me a second. I'm trying to channel my cub commercial. this Thursday and Friday at cub. with your My Cup Rewards app, get 30 percent [01:07:00] off of all fresh produce. I be like, I can't, I can't think and say it. it's really not that good. Hold on, I wish I had a script. But you know what I'm saying,you bring the energy, you sell the script, you take the notes and then you tweak it while the client's asking you for specific, emphasis or do this different, do that different. And that's what they pay you to do. And it's fun. Stephen: It is fun. I record some of them, on the other end. So yeah. Oh fun. I record some of them, a good job? You did a good job. Yeah, and I can hear it. Your voice has got, like, character because you've got the rasp thing and a little bit of a lower voice for female and Ashley: and a lower voice for female. Stephen: yeah, those are good qualities. Ashley: they've called me a lot for smoker stuff, like quit help Minnesota. So I'm like, and I don't smoke cigarettes or anything, but I'm like, that makes sense. I get it. Do you need help quitting smoking? Quit help. Minnesota is here for you. You know, like, Mike Dreams was my sync man, like he did a lot of sync work. he got a lot of deals where the [01:08:00] songs that we've done together were used in different things. I think it was like the NBA playoffs, on TNT, they Take Me Higher. So there's a song we did together called Take Me So he got that on a commercial. I can't think of it right now, but basically he was very active in the sync world and a lot of the sync stuff that I've gotten is really him getting those opportunities for his music and I was on the song. I got very close to signing a deal, but I didn't like the idea of giving half of my publishing And I think that's just something that I need to get over because I think that's just what they do Stephen: there are, um, exclusive sync deals and there's non exclusive sync deals. and so you can do things where it's all non exclusive. They do exist, but a lot of opportunities are the exclusive world where, You have a publisher that is essentially signing that track. They're essentially purchasing the track for potentially zero dollars. Some of them will pay a little bit of money for it, but it might be a zero dollar [01:09:00] purchase. They own that master now, and the agreement is that they're going to rep it and hopefully get you a lot of placements with that track. And you'll keep your writers, but you can't do anything else with that track. Ashley: if I was making new music that'd be a different story, but like for my existing catalog I don't want Stephen: And typically, yeah. And typically people that are working with that type of sink library or sink house aren't giving them their precious artist material. It is the. It is Ashley: they make specifically writing Stephen: a lot of times it's composers that are writing with that in mind, knowing that fully well that they're just going to sell it to this library, or sign it with the library. generally, if you're an artist first, where you've put a huge investment into an album and time and emotional, all that kind of stuff, then, a non exclusive opportunity is probably more what you're looking for. but generally speaking, the non exclusive stuff is going to be pretty competitive [01:10:00] because there's all the other artists out there also trying to chase that down, exclusive. And there's sometimes not as many opportunities for that because the exclusive stuff can be easier for , the network or , whoever's going, the business, whoever's going to use Ashley: it. They want the exclusive stuff. Stephen: it makes it easier for them to use it because it's free and clear, or at least it can be free and clear. so from the business perspective, there's a lot of advantages to that. And that's why , it's easier to get placements, I think, through the exclusive world than it is the non exclusive, but that's only my experience. We'll at some point have more of a sync expert , on the podcast to talk about that. But it is the hmm., it can be a nice little extra source of income, it's a nice surprise. It's generally from my experience of it, unless you're doing it full time and you really know that world,it's not much of a business plan because you can't really figure out like how much you're actually going to get from it. Cause it's just dependent on how often it's going to get placed and you have no control over that, but it's nice bonus on the top when it Ashley: [01:11:00] it's not much of it happens. Like energy and really intention. it's really hard for me to just throw some words together just for the sake of throwing it together. So I'm really trying to put my best foot forward every time. So when I come up with something and what if I end up liking that, you know what I'm saying? And what if it ends up not getting placed, but now I can't do anything with it because they own it and they're waiting for somebody to want to use it. And so now it just sits, That part of it, just, that's probably why I don't vibe with the idea so Stephen: of it just had a wide vibe with the idea much. because if you are, paying a studio and all that kind of stuff, then you're going to guard those masters a part of what that mindset of what am I really like it and it doesn't get used and things like that. you just can't have, any sort of scarcity mindset. when you get in that world, it's yeah, I wrote this. It's really [01:12:00] great. And I can do it again and I can write another one. You know, like and part of that comes When you've kicked out a hundred tracks, after a hundred, you're like, okay, I can do this over and over again. and so if you're not in that position where it's I can do 20 songs in my lifetime. then yeah, don't sign this away exclusively. Maybe you might want to hold onto those for your, just for your own sake. you have to have access and then when you do have access, you also have to just have that mindset of, I can do it over and over again. Ashley: do it over and over again. Well, Stephen: Ashley, this whole episode has been fun. I feel like we've covered a ton of territory, a lot of ground, a lot of stuff. before we wrap up, I want to get your sort of,, overview, looking back at all these things you've covered, , What do you think has been the biggest secret to your success and your longevity of finding all these different avenues that you've been successful in and, continuing to do music to this day? if you had to pass down a tip to the listeners, what do you think is the main thing that's Ashley: propelled that I would say , [01:13:00] no stone, left unturned. it's almost say yes to almost everything. And , the things that maybe you shouldn't have said yes to, you'll learn from it. I'd rather say yes to something and. have that lead to something and be glad that I did it rather than say no to it. I've done a lot of free stuff, especially early on in my career. just building up that experience and that resume. A lot of times you're going to have to say yes to stuff that don't necessarily make financial sense. but realizing where you are and understanding the opportunity and things. Now, some things you don't have to say yes to, especially after you've done. Enough where you know, you have a standard and, for whatever reason that doesn't meet your standard, I'm not saying, throw your morals and your standards away, but, Definitely recognize opportunities, and those opportunities are not always financial. and sometimes they'll make you feel a little uncomfortable, like as in my case with the cover band. But, that has been my, my largest money maker, the most [01:14:00] consistent. Maybe not per gig, but like over time, it's been consistent, it's reliable, it's, built me up as a performer and things like that. And that's because I said yes to, an opportunity. That came my way. and at the time it didn't have the most favorable terms, but over time I was able to Negotiate better terms for myself and appreciate it for what it did offer what it does offer. So That and like being a good person being friendly Stepping outside of your comfort zone. Like I'm not the most Extroverted person? I think I'm an extroverted introvert, really. But, , I've been in situations where I just have to go for it. Cause I'm like, , What if this creates the next opportunity for me? it's so easy to like, stay closed in. I've had to come out of my shell. I would say, push the boundaries of your comfort. I don't mean to sound like a hypocrite cause we did talk about how there's a lot of ways in which I'm staying comfortable, but. Moments, you know in scenarios like my mom asking me to sing as a kid It wasn't comfortable, but I [01:15:00] would push past that discomfort in that nervousness and I still have nerves and things that I have to push past to this day whether I'm performing or in a networking situation or social situation a cocktail hour or whatever and there's people and you know I know that person has access and has, probably some value that they could add, they can't add it if they don't know what I do. I have to make the introduction, so pushing past that. but yeah, that's like the tidbits that I think have aided in my success Stephen: Thanks for sharing and if people want to learn more about you or connect like where would you like them to go to Ashley: Sure, you can go to AshleyDubose. com and that links to, my videos on YouTube, my Instagram. You can DM me. I always write back. I read all my messages, Facebook and pretty much all the social media links are right there on AshleyDubose. Stephen: Cool. And we'll link [01:16:00] to that in the show notes as well. But Ashley, thank you so much for coming and sharing your past, your stories, your insights, everything. Really appreciate it. Ashley: thank you so much for