Ep. 21: Propel Your Music Career - Mastering Your Mindset with Brandon Commodore

[00:00:00] Stephen: Welcome to Seekers from the Scene. My name is Stephen Helvig and I'm joined today by Brandon Commodore here at Helvig Productions. I'm really excited to talk to Brandon. He is a multi talented musician a musical director a producer and a songwriter. He's toured with Sounds of Blackness Mint Condition and New Power Generation Prince's former backing band. currently Brandon also is the drummer and musical director for Stokely. Heavy heavy hitters across the board. has some amazing [00:01:00] experiences and some great stories and insight to share with everyone. Please welcome Brandon. Brandon: Man thank you for having me. I'm excited. Stephen: Yeah. I'm glad you reached out because I've kind of I followed you on Instagram or like known a little bit about you but We don't have any mutual connections that I know of or you know like which is I think the first for me on this podcast at least and hopefully not the last let's start by just getting to know you better. Like tell me about your background you know the early days I've read a lot and and there's a lot there. So walk us through the childhood. It's worth starting there. Brandon: Yeah the early days I grew up in a house that was always musical my father's a drummer as well and my mother is a vocalist and so when I was A very small kid. They were both in the sounds of blackness original members in the sounds of blackness and so Those rehearsals and those shows are what my first exposure to music and the music business and the music industry. and then like mid to late 80s they [00:02:00] both joined a new formed group at the time called More by Four. A jazz ensemble that was they caught fire in Twin Cities and suddenly were touring around the world. and so thatplays a big part on How I'm able to dream and hope I can become a musician when I get older because I've seen the highest highs you know as a as a young guy they were torn in Europe and they for whatever reason took my sister and I I think I was five and my sister was two. we were in somewhere in Europe not the Montreux Jazz Fest. I don't remember which festival it was but we got to catch Miles Davis on on stage and he was walking by and I just remember like the absolute pandemonium like people were so happy to see him and to be that close to him. It just reminded me of like tapes. I would see a Michael Jackson you know just the constant like largeness of it all. And so having [00:03:00] that and seeing that as a kid that you know if anyone ever asked you what do you want to do when you grow up? What do you want to be like? It was very clear for me what I wanted to do. Stephen: Yeah. How could you not want that? Brandon: Yeah. that is the childhood for me. It's rehearsals studio sessions concerts backstage all that good stuff. Stephen: Now you did formal education as well right? Brandon: Yeah I before it was McNally it was music tech. I've studied there. and my last semester there is the semester before they converted to McNally which became the four year Institute. But when I was there it was a two year program. And uh me and one of my very very good friends also a drummer named Eric Ballard we were there together at the same time we just pushed it to the absolute limit. We were playing drums all the time. We were living in my family's house so we had drums in the basement at all times like it was non stop. Non stop. Stephen: way to do it. If you're going to go to music school is to take full advantage of that. And yeah. [00:04:00] Do you feel like the connections you made at music tech slash McNally were worth it for you? Brandon: Absolutely. and and I guess I would say more so the experience than any particular connection. all had to take a class called contemporary literature. Contemporary lit was a class where One week you got the song each department so drums bass guitar keys and vocals. Everybody got a song that you had to learn and you worked on it in your principle and then at the the next time you saw that class we would have to perform that song. So we would you know and they would just kind of randomly pick someone from each department to have to go on stage and perform. Every week was a different genre. so if I can remember correctly in that class we did I remember playing Take Five. I remember playing Money. I remember playing one of the Bonnie Raitt records. So it was a wide variety of songs. And so I mention that because that class I really feel prepared me for what would be the next [00:05:00] steps in my musical career. Because after graduating after leaving McNally the next thing I did was join the R Factor band which is a huge wedding band here in town especially during that time. not just wedding band parties galas they do they do it all but that book was 500 songs deep right? And a lot of different genres. And so I truly believe that the way that I was learning to prepare for that class is what I was able to carry over to that gig. Stephen: How long were you in R Factor? Brandon: Oh man our factor probably four or five years. It was a good it was a long it was a good run. Stephen: the cover band gig is a training ground for I mean it is insane. You have to be really really talented to do that. we had Ashley DuBose on few few episodes ago and she is still doing that gig. And I like to bring that up because I find it is a great opportunity for musicians as a way to. stay busy keep honing their skills make money potentially [00:06:00] even do some travel all of that. Because there there can be kind of a negative connotation with with being in a cover band amongst original bands you know there's that there's that fight but I just don't really see the argument as long as it. Is it's working for you and you have time to do the other things you want to do. I mean man having to learn 500 songs like you start to see patterns you start to understand genres in better ways that Brandon: Oh yeah absolutely absolutely. And I think having to be that type of musician it just teaches you more than the music too. It teaches you responsibility accountability and what does that mean for a musician. Right. Like when you have to plan your day around this particular gig or whatever like if you got to load in at a certain time because the event starts at a certain time just all of the different things that go with it. It just really teaches you professionalism right? When I was running around with the art factor we had to wear tuxedos to every gig even the bar gigs. Right. And so for us that might've been like oh man but for [00:07:00] the band leader he w he was very well aware that. The people who are coming to this particular bar have a wedding they have to plan next year and dah dah dah. So I want it was always like a commercial you know he was always thinking that way. So big big learning. That was almost like an extension of school for me. Stephen: Absolutely the professionalism that's involved in being in something that runs more like a business than a lot of local bands do. that's huge because it starts to show you what you get when you do that like how it builds on itself. I want to come back to that. I definitely want to come back to that because I know that you and I want to talk about some mindset stuff and you know from the little bit of time that we've already talked even hanging out before here I can tell that that's a strength of yours in terms of like your your mental fortitude your ability to be professional to take things seriously to think ahead. But I want to stay on this journey right now of you know your sort of progression through time up to this point. So you start in the art factor. What happens after that? Brandon: Yeah so[00:08:00] during my time with The R Factor so we're we're somewhere around I'm gonna struggle with the time period but I know for sure we're like we're around 2005. So this time period around 2005 and 2006 I'm still playing with The R Factor andthe drummer for the songs of blackness at the time they were parting ways for whatever reason. And I remember being at church I was playing at church heavily involved in my church at the time. and he was there and we were talking and I'm like so what happened man? He was like Oh you know it's just time to do something different but you know if they need somebody you should put your bid in. And I'd never. considered having a shot. One he had had the gig for a long time and the drummer before that had it for a very long time through the Grammy run and the tours and the drummer before that was my father. So I never Knew how I would get there so just off of that conversation by him telling me take a shot I reached out to the director [00:09:00] Gary Hines and I said hey man I don't know if you're still in need but I'd love to play and He and I had a rehearsal in my basement the next day Stephen: Wow. Brandon: He hit me up. He was like man. Thank you for reaching out. You know your reputation precedes you and Let's let's check it out. And so within A couple weeks I had to gig and had to do my first fly date which was in Houston Texas. from there that we were did their annual Christmas show every December that the sounds would do you know a string of dates at the Guthrie theater or at the time was the Fitzgerald theater actually. and so I started preparing for that and that was that. So a lot of other things are circling at this time. That was my point. So our factor. Sounds of Blackness enter this band called Just Live okay? So two very good friends of mine Courtney Richards currently lives in Los Angeles California and another buddy Beef they had a rap group and they had decided that they were going to only use a live band now. They didn't want to just do the DJ [00:10:00] thing. And so some other friends of mine were playing with them and I found my way to a rehearsal And it just worked. And so I became their drummer which suddenly became I was the I wouldn't quite say the music director yet but that's kind of what I was doing like leading the band in rehearsals and making sure the other musicians knew the music. And you know so that starts Being tour ready now that starts me understanding how to run a show how to program a show How to take things from the studio get it into the computer and now perform live all of that starts with that band And so I'm doing all of these different things at the same time. So this is a full on hip hop band Sounds of Blackness and then R Factor playing you know Sweet Caroline every night. And so it's a wide variety. And so playing wise it was a big growth period for me because I had to be flexible. I had to be well versed in different styles and I couldn't [00:11:00] take my playing style from Just Live to Sounds of Blackness and I couldn't take Sounds of Blackness to the R Factor. So I was having to be different things. And so that just kind of I felt like that built my muscles up. which obviously led to a mentor of mine obviously Stokely Williams. he would kind of hit me up for some cover gigs that he was doing around town. If he wasn't here I would cover his uh Afro Cuban jazz band called Johto.and so that just kind of started to plant the seeds. one day he hit me up and said Hey you know we're we're getting ready to do some auditions. I need you to come through. so then that starts that whole journey. So but that little bubble where I had all of those three different things going on that is literally what prepared me for every single thing that I'm doing right now. Stephen: Yeah. Yeah I mean multiple genres multiple playing styles multiple responsibilities. yeah what a training ground. Brandon: And then when we also so with that too when we talk about being a professional you know how do you handle when two of those bands have [00:12:00] a gig on the same night? How do you handle when rehearsals are the same when you can't do something like how do you learn how to navigate that as an adult and as a responsible person like taking the I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings or like because it's not about any of that. How do you still take care of business like so that was also training ground for that as well. Yeah. Stephen: down some of this. First one quick question before I forget it. the Stokely Williams As a mentor how did you guys actually connect? Was it just because you were out playing shows and he knew you from that? Or was there other? Brandon: no not from me playing shows but from him being around town. there are a lot of great musicians in the twin cities. some not so accessible. and and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I just mean they have what you know they have their bubble and they do what they do and it's not always in the public eye. and so the first time I was introduced to him I was maybe eight or nine years old. I caught [00:13:00] him my father saw him walking around a Juneteenth celebration in North Minneapolis which we would go to every year. So I saw him there and I remember him like there's no way that's the guy I've been seeing on TV. I can't believe it. Right. and then as I got older I would start trying to catch his performances and the different things he was involved in around town. Yeah. So. Me and my guys met uh who I mentioned earlier Eric Ballard and Barry Alexander who was Johnny Lang's drummer for quite a bit of time. we were relentless on finding Stokely Michael Bland and you know Jellybean. Like we were we would find out where these people are playing and we would go there. so to make a long story a little bit shorter When I was graduating high school my parents knew my father knew that Stokely and Larry Waddell keyboard player from In Condition Jeff Allen saxophone player and keyboard player from In Condition a bass player named Serge Aku and this old school cab percussionist named Wallace they had just started this little Afro Cuban jazz band.[00:14:00] And so they hired those guys to come play at me and my best friend's open house when graduating high school. And so that. Day really kind of solidifies the relationship and starts to starts to keeping in contact. So I got his information and he was like well we're going to be playing every Monday night uptown at Wallace's place. Wallace had a shop on Lake and Lindell at the time. And so we go down there and hang every Monday and eventually he started calling you know one of us up to sit in and then we just start like. I would start hitting him up all the time like Hey man what's going on? Where are you at? Want to come through? Hey man what are you doing? Da da da da. Stephen: Yeah. Brandon: and then he would start mentioning yeah man I want to get you these men condition rehearsal tapes. I want to get you we're going to need an understudy or something for for Chris Dave. eventually years later that came true. They were getting ready to go back out on the road and start promoting an album. oh you know you know let me back up So like going to those Monday night shows and I would start to sit in and we were still at McNally at the time. And so we would call [00:15:00] him up and he would come by up to the school. We get in the practice room and we would just play drums for hours or he would come by the house. Like one of those nights he was playing with his band. was a Tuesday night at this spot called Bob Lou's which at the time was across the street from Bunkers. So they would play there every Tuesday night and this was a very very cool hang. You never knew who was going to show up are there acts who would be in town playing the Dakota or something like that. They will come by after their gig and hang out with Stokely and them guys. and so one night after we were down there hanging out and we told him yeah man let's go to the house. Let's go play some drums. He's like. Sure sure sure. Nothing happens. We'll try it again the next week. Like yo man come through. And uh he's like all right I'm gonna pack up and I'll see y'all over there. And we go home and we start messing around make sure the house looks okay. And we're playing and suddenly we get that knock on the door. And it's gotta be 1. 30 in the morning by now. And yeah we play drums almost until the sun came up. And he was in there wearing us out. Like we were trying all types of stuff. We were just going for it [00:16:00] man. Like a real real shed session. And so that is really the. big blessing for me in that relationship is the time that he spent with me in my early twenties just on drums and he wouldn't just let me just play you know aimlessly. He would stop me and say all right that's cool. Try it this way or think about it this way when you're playing like he was really kind of what I believe now he was molding me for you know for something that something became giving me a shot in an audition with the world renowned Minkondition. Stephen: That's such an awesome story. and I'm I'm glad that that we dug into that a little bit and got that journey because you took the steps necessary for that to even be possible right? a lot of people just think or hear stories. Okay let me back up. A lot of times in these podcast interviews. it's the quick brief cut down version right? And it just sounds so easy. Like yeah. And then I and you know then I had Stokely as a mentor [00:17:00] and right. And it's like well hold on a second you know right away. First thing is you skipped the whole long journey of the fact that. You put in years of effort years of trying to make a connection years of showing up going to shows being where you needed to be all for just the possibility of a conversation down the line. And it worked out for you. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes those things just stay you know maybe a mutual connection a friendship and things like that. Sometimes they blossom into something very serious. It doesn't matter. The point is is you were willing to put in the work and the time and do the things that needed to be done for something like that to happen which did really reap a lot of reward for you. Brandon: but Stephen: Still still years of showing up. That's what it means. And I think people often don't get that story enough. Brandon: Yeah man. Stephen: all right let's jump ahead to a little bit of where we [00:18:00] left off in your journey where you were in three different bands all doing different things but one of the bands sort of forced you to become the musical director. it sounds like it was kind of like out of necessity that you needed to play more roles in order for that to be successful. Brandon: I would I would change that a little bit. I wouldn't say that I was forced at all. I don't even think I wouldn't even say I was asked. I would say that me becoming a music director happened very naturally. I think it happened on purpose for sure. But I don't think it was intended. I don't even know how much it was needed at the time. of something you exploring saying Hey this would be cool if we added more of these elements to the It just started becoming normal to me. It started to become very regular to me to say Oh that's not how this goes. This goes this way. and also you know one of the leaders of that group my friend Courtney who I mentioned Courtney and I were spending [00:19:00] a lot of time together outside of the studio. Like we were hanging out a lot. And so or even just the time I would just hang out with those guys in the studio when they were making the music which I was not involved in at the time. Although I desperately wanted to I really wanted to be a music producer at that time. That's what I cared the most about. but anyway so I just knew how the music was being made and I had that relationship to understand what they wanted. I knew very much what the two of them wanted from their band. and I've had. countless of experiences around rehearsals and different directors and how these things are run. and when I talk about the art factor being a learning ground also the leader of that band is the Emil Campbell. I learned a ton from on how to Run a band. and the same thing in the sounds of blackness situation and being on tour with those with those folks and Watching Gary Hines have to navigate leading the group on stage but then having [00:20:00] to be responsible for the meet and greet after the show and I was kind of shadowing him and those things like all right I set this up for you over here. So you don't have to worry about so traffic can go this way. Now last night we got killed and we did that for some reason all of this stuff started mattering to me. And that's when I knew all right this is something more than a musician for me. And so in those just live rehearsals it just was important to all of us. We were trying to make the best show anyone has ever seen. And I was just doing whatever I knew to do whatever experience I could bring whatever tools and resources I could bring I would naturally do that without being asked. And then I think eventually they noticed. Like hmm we might have someone here who can do this. Like it wasn't ever something that we thought we needed or knew we needed. Like we were just going for it you know? And so I think it very naturally happened because that's what I was supposed to become. Not specifically for that band but just that's what I was working towards without even [00:21:00] knowing Stephen: Filling a need that you felt like was there yeah. let's back up one step and explain to people that may not know what is a musical director. Brandon: A musical director can be many things right? And I've had to learn that only because when you work for an artist who makes their own music like there's no you don't musically direct Stokely Williams right? Stephen: right right. Brandon: And we're playing his music so no one can tell anyone else how that's supposed to be played like he can right? So In that scenario in the scenario of Stokely I am not in charge of the direction that the music goes in. I simply have the assignment of making it sound how it's supposed to sound. for me that really It was important who was going to be playing with me. and so when he sat down and he was telling me about you know going solo and he was asking me you know all right so who are we going to get? And one I was honored that he would even ask me that because he could call anyone [00:22:00] all over the country to put a band together right? And so I really took that serious and I didn't want to just like call my buddies. I wanted to really get people who I thought would show up and then people who understood my language you know understood my speak so that when we're in these rehearsals we can get to work. Like cause my thing is I want to do the work. I love rehearsals. I can do that all day long all night long. MPG rehearsals are like 10 to 14 hours. Mint rehearsal would be the same. Like mint rehearsal they would show up with their own lunches and all that. Like it was the duration. Right. And so answer your question. a lot of my roles are organizing rehearsals scheduling with the band and the musicians figuring out. A time to get seven people in the same room at one time you know making sure that the Dropbox or the Google Drive has everything they possibly could need to be prepared for that rehearsal and just really knowing the music like I think more than anyone I have to know the music and that might even be true but that's what I tell myself. I tell [00:23:00] myself you have to know this music. You gotta know the bass part the guitar the horns all of that stuff. Because that's just kind of how I take music in in order for me to learn a song I have to learn the entire song. I can't I have to know what everybody else is doing kind of to make sense of what I'm doing if that makes sense. that's the gist. And I and I I with Stokely also a big part of what I do is trying to keep sound checks as efficient and pushing forward and all that stuff. So I'll be the one you know kind of quarterbacking sound checks as well. So those are that's the majority of my roles and responsibility as music director. Stephen: does that also connect into live shows in terms of coordinating tracks and stems and things like that? Brandon: Oh does it ever? yes yes. And so to tie it all together that is what started out with the Just Live band which was different from the Sounds and different from the R Factor cause we would just count a song and play it in an arrangement or follow the chart with R Factor et cetera et cetera. But with Just Live we were starting to run backing [00:24:00] tracks which was a brand new thing for me. And so we were getting all of that together and that's when I started buying my own gear. in terms of like at the time everybody was using the Pro Tools the Inbox. and so yeah just getting all of that stuff together and how to make that mobile. How to take the studio and bring it on stage with us. Starts with that group. and Even more so with Mint because Mint was running a small amount of backing tracks at the time when I joined. which eventually grew into a different thing and eventually became my responsibility. which was welcomed because I'd already been doing it so I wasn't no stranger to it. And so the same thing with Stokely now like I am fully in control not in control but responsible for all of the programming for the show. Stephen: Yeah so it sounds like the musical director is ultimately the leader for rehearsals when that comes to scheduling how they run and making sure people are effective in the rehearsals. And then that bleeds into the live show making sure that the [00:25:00] shows are the soundcheck is efficient the tracks are ready to go and that the show goes off without a hitch. Brandon: Yeah exactly. Stephen: it sounds like some of that flex can be you know in certain groups perhaps you're a little bit of like the group's producer at rehearsal in terms of how the parts are going to be done and potentially with other groups Stokely being one option or one example where no he he's in control of that but you're making sure that the rest of the members are staying on task. Brandon: yeah. and being an MD is really that role can change depending on what you're doing. Right. So the the music director for a musical or a play has different responsibilities. You know what I mean? Then then I do. And And I'm sure we'll get into this later but just me personally as a musician I am always in this mindset of. Not being good enough right? Or not being enough. And so for me even outside of music like I'm always trying to prove that [00:26:00] I am right? and no one's said this to me no one's told me I'm not no one's made me feel this way this is just that's where I start. naturally. and so with that being said that is what has always pushed me to do more than the drums. That's what made me learn pro tools which made me learn Ableton which made me learn logic. and so it's tough to say like I'm a music director because To be honest with Stokely it's music directing. It's show programming. I got my hands in a lot of the production. and not that he ever necessarily asked me to do so but just in my quest on learning more and being able to do more. I am now able to do these things. So it's a lot more than just being an MD right? Because like I said the programming of the show we started at a very low tech production. You know we had a computer that was running a few tracks. But now we've switched over to Ableton and it's like [00:27:00] another brain on stage. Right. Our Ableton session is not only spitting out the backing tracks which everyone hears in the house but it's also sending out midi cues across the stage. So it's controlling another computer that's on the keyboard rig. It's controlling the computer that's on the bass rig. it gets pretty intense right now. So we've gone a little bit far. Stephen: Yeah. How how do you learn those skills? Brandon: Oh man. so specifically with Ableton I had to do a lot of homework because one I I was not familiar with the program at all. I was a logic guy and when we started we were doing main stage which was familiar to me because I was doing that in my own band. I was doing that I was I knew main stage very very well. and so learning Ableton I had to start from scratch and uh that was a journey. So I reached out to my buddies who I knew already knew.Um there's another guy here in town. He's a studio engineer and producer and guitar player worship leaders named Zach Fody. Yeah. So Fody came and got me. To a point to where we can at least start [00:28:00] rehearsing with the tracks in Ableton. So he came and got me set up. And so I learned my first. chunk of stuff from Foddy and he's been a very good friend to me over the years by the way actually just talked to him a week ago just talking mixing you know like he's always there for me. so yeah so Foddy came got me right. cause I needed some of the tricks. I needed some transitions and things like that that I just didn't know how to do. I mean from there. Ableton kind of caught fire. Right. And so now there's a lot of YouTube tutorials. A lot of people are explaining how to do the things. And so I did a lot of that. And I also joined a group called From Studio to Stage. shout out to Will Doggett. and that offers like basically some premium content on how to really do these things and how to step up your game with programming and inside of Stephen: from studio to Brandon: From Studio to Stage Stephen: right. I'm going to find that link for people. Cause I think I think there are people that just are overwhelmed by where do we even begin with the live performance kind of production here to take it up. And not everybody's necessarily ready for that because [00:29:00] it is a lot of work to get to that point. But if you are in one of those groups or perhaps you're playing a role where you are musical director and you want to be able to offer more of these things to the people you're playing with this is a great place to begin. Brandon: Absolutely. Yeah. And so yeah I'll say it one more time from studio to stage and you can find we'll dog it in that in that group you can find them on YouTube. He does a lot of free content but he also has this subscription based program where you can join and you know Learn all the ins and outs and that's everything from how to set up Ableton as a keyboard rig how to run backing tracks how to control lights how to control sound like how to send media all of that stuff is in there. And so I learned. Almost everything that I'm doing now the way that our show runs from that experience which has been wonderful wonderful for me. So now I could I could retire from drums or you know and program shows for people just from those experiences. Stephen: That's awesome. Brandon: Yeah. Stephen: What do you think is the most [00:30:00] important attribute or skill for a musical director to have? Brandon: Ooh that's good man. Um I would say one you have to be able to people very well right? And so you have to be able to kind of disconnect how you feel you should be treated as a person. And understanding that you're doing a job you're in a role and you have a position to play and you have to make everyone comfortable with that. You have to make everyone around you comfortable with. You being the quote unquote leader and them following you right? some of the people that I play with Yohannes Tona for example who's a phenomenal bass player. He tours with Stokely. He also tours with Cory Wong. I mean but he's played with a wide variety of people like Jeff Lee Johnson the guitar like his resume is insane. So there's no reason on paper why he should have to follow me. You know what I mean? But I think the respect is mutual. And he [00:31:00] understands as a professional what my responsibility is. And he knows that I know I'm not there to be his boss. I'm not there to tell him how to play. I'm simply there to lead this team and help make sure everybody is cool. Right. And so it's really that is do you have the knowledge the understanding and the resources to make sure everything is cool? Stephen: Yeah it's not just about being the best musician in the band or anything like that. And I think that that's something that You know newer musicians need to hear that. It doesn't matter necessarily if you're the primary songwriter or the lead singer or the most talented musician that's shredding on your instrument on stage who can lead and who should be leading is a different decision from those things. Brandon: 100 percent and it's different based on what you do. Right. So keyboard players who are MDs They have a different reach. They have a different ability right? So they can add parts to the show they can say I'm gonna put a line here So [00:32:00] and they teach the guitar player the line out of that me being as a drummer. I'm not a multi instrumentalist right? So I can play piano a little bit I try to teach myself to play the bass that lasted for like two weeks Okay so so I have to rely on These people for that you know I can tell my keyboard player said Dave I need something right here. And we've been playing together for 20 years. So he knows. Instinctually kind of when I say right here what's happening he can assess and he'll know what I you know and so and we have that relationship where if I ask him nine times out of ten he's going to play kind of what I want to hear. And it's the same thing with the bass player Johannes. We've been playing together a long time and I know his musicality. I know his instincts. And so if I say I need something right here I can describe what I want and he can deliver that right? And so That's where I would draw the difference right? and if I can just kind of go off for a quick second like I would speak to that because you kind of get intimidated as a as a drummer. Sometimes it's tough to be one [00:33:00] scene in a role of leadership or doing anything outside of the drums. We don't really get considered for that as often. and so for me it was. It was seeing people like Questlove right? Like I went to see the Roots play. we were in Chicago for a Just Live show. And we happened to catch the Roots playing at DePaul University. and I remember we were like man this show is crazy but I'm like glued to quest loving. He had a microphone here and he had a microphone over here and he would go back and forth and I could hear him in the house but I couldn't quite make sense of what was going on. And I realized this is for us to hear. This was for the band. So he's directing the band and singing background parts and doing ad libs and also that blew my mind. and then. to bring it full circle for me. when we talked earlier about people in town being accessible right? I knew every Monday night I could go down to bunkers and see Michael Bland play. Okay. And so when we talk about mentors and we talk [00:34:00] about the relationship that I had with Stokely and him pulling up and playing we also had that with Michael Bland. Michael Bland made himself available to me and my friends my my drum crew. And. He would say all right let's let's meet on this day and we will go play or we would go down on Monday nights and see him playing he would have one of us sit in like so we had a great relationship with Mike too and he did a lot for me and so anyway speaking of Monday nights watching him count the songs off watching him say all night like he was just in control and that spoke a lot to me that said Mike has perfect pitch by the way Mike is a multi instrumental analyst. So I've seen him play bass and I know he does more. So anyway that opened me up and it told me that I can do more. It told me that I do have a voice even being a drummer. and so all of these things that I was feeling and caring about and wanting to do or wanting to say it gave me permission to do it you know? Those things especially Mike and especially quest love taking their [00:35:00] their example. that's what gives me the strength and the confidence and the courage to do what I'm doing now. Stephen: That's Yeah. I want to shift the conversation I think based off of that last piece to mindset stuff um there's two things that have come up in conversation that I find interesting. One is that at an early age you're exposed to people. performing and touring and recording at the highest levels you know Sounds of Blackness being Grammy award winning you know your parents are in that group. So right away you as a child I've got to imagine that you're thinking yeah this is possible you know like your sights are probably set higher than the average musician just because you're exposed to more of that. So I think that that's makes it feel more real probably. but two being around all of those people on the other side of it you've also said that you constantly have a feeling that I'm not quite good enough yet and I got to keep working. So there's Both sides of that coin [00:36:00] right? You feel like it's all there I can do this look at all these people I know that are doing it and at the same time I don't feel good enough to be here. The imposter syndrome kind of thing. How have you managed that? Because it seems like it's generally been you've done well with it you're successful but is there a dark side to that? That's been tough to like has that ever prevented you from making progress? Brandon: Ooh. prevented me from making progress. That'll be tough to say right? So it has stopped me from doing certain things. Yes. it can be crippling. so there's lots of gigs that I never auditioned for you know? Um which I today I wouldn't change anything. I've made peace with all of that. but I can you know be honest and admit that not getting on the plane to go to those auditions or not putting my name in when I could have when I was asked to it was fear that made me not do it. So there is a dark side. There is a there's a very um.There's a very lonely side to it. and and so what you learn[00:37:00] and it can be difficult to overcome these type of thoughts right? Because I mean let's just look in the last 10 years with Instagram and YouTube. Stephen: Oh yeah. Heh Brandon: I can go search and find who can play. Right. So you got that coming at you every day. Right. And I'm a grown person. I'm an adult and still have to be like man look at this kid. I can't play like that. so yeah so you you I think the human it's human to to deal with those types of thoughts. but. Man I I have nothing but gratitude and I truly feel blessed. I mean just to even sit here with you today and be able to say yeah you know I used to call Michael Blaine. I used to call Stoke like that's crazy Stephen: people are going to listen to this and be like how could you ever have imposter syndrome? But that's that's how this works. There's always somebody that's better than you. [00:38:00] And you will always keep comparing yourself to other people and looking up. I did a whole episode on the comparison trap Brandon: Yeah. I I dug that by the way. Yeah. Stephen: it's it's a real thing for everybody no matter what level you're at. You're always looking around and thinking about well this person's better than me. And you know that's tough. Brandon: And you know what? I would say one of the most recent lessons that I've learned and maybe some of y'all watching what I've already you know maybe you've already experienced this and dealt with it. But to me it's right like understanding especially in the director leadership kind of role. you learn that how well. A person plays there's very little to do with it right? And so recently I'm just thinking like I realize it is not about whether this person can play well enough or not. In a group scenario in a band scenario especially it's really about the fit right? And so even with Stokely we've made some personnel changes from when we first started. And it's not that those guys couldn't play. They're off doing great things right now you know but it [00:39:00] was just all about the fit and is this the right person for this particular thing? And so not being good enough for one thing or not getting an opportunity for another you know you maybe just didn't fit that but it's not about your talent. It's not about your ability. And so when we talk about being mentally tough and just. You know maturing in your ways of thinking because it what we do is no walk in the park you know and to be in this business you have to understand a lot of who you are and when you have to show up as that person versus when you have to just be a person at work you know and that that's a big difference. And then this is a whole nother thing too when you're in this. Business with people you care about. Hold man. When they tell you don't. Do business with friends or family musicians. We blow that out of the water. We right past that We start bands with our closest friends You know what I mean? [00:40:00] And and that's a lot that is that is a lot to deal with it right? Especially when you ask like about the earlier about being you know being a music director and what those roles are right? So when you're an MD in a band with people you really care about One of the biggest lessons I had to learn was how to navigate situations where those lines are crossed and blurred right? And so what I would say to anyone who's willing to listen is if you're in a scenario where you're friends or family with the people you are doing music with you really really have to learn how to approach it from the with the right hat on. So if you're late for a rehearsal if you have to miss something you can't send that personal text like Bro my bad I ran out of gas and the diapers and da da da da like. The band leader does not need any of that. That is not how you would communicate with your leader at any other job [00:41:00] right? Same thing on the flip side right? as a director a band leader or whatever you are when you receive these texts how are you going to answer now? Are you going to reply as the Band leader or are you going to reply as the homeboy right? So are you going to say Oh dude I totally understand. And da da da like where are you how are you going to show up in that situation? So to make all of that makes sense. It's about boundaries and knowing when to be able to have to make it clear which one we're doing at the moment. Right? So if you are the person who needs to send that I'm going to be late texts. You got to decide if you're sending this to your friend or if you're sending this to the music director. Stephen: to dig into this a little bit more because I think this is an awesome tip for people. let me start by asking do you? Pick a tone and then stay with it amongst that group or does it fluctuate? What I mean by that is all right let's just use mint condition. For example you know that mint condition rehearsals are [00:42:00] always with that tone. It's not about. Being friends being understanding of that it's no everyone has a role to play here and you're expected to show up be on time do your thing and then that tone is just there so it never gets confusing so then when rehearsal's done you can go back to just like yeah hanging out being friends with those people or does it does it go back and forth? Brandon: It's going to go back and forth and and and it's going to be a case by case situation. Right. So let me put this together real quick. So you know we've already covered the mid 2005 to you know about let's say 2008 ish. Right. Or let's go all the way to 2010. Right. And so at this time. That band Just Live is done. They have moved on to different things. and so now Mint is my main thing. Sounds was kind of far in between and I wasn't doing Art Factor anymore. and so With all of this time on my hands and Just Live stopping my buddy from that group hits me up and says Yo man regardless of what [00:43:00] happened with Just Live I still want to do music with you. So me and my close friends we started a production group. we were doing all of the things we were making music and buying gear. We eventually built our own studio uptown. And I mentioned this because this is what leads to the band. As you know it now is MPLS starts from that conversation. And so we were running the studio uptown and. We weren't necessarily interested in like just kind of like finding clients to come book the studio So we're trying to figure out how we're gonna make sure we can pay our rent all the time at the studio And so we decided let's just perform live. We'll go do a show and then pay rent. Boom So I reached out to Bunkers and we started this relationship with Bunkers. We became a cover band down there And at the time we were called the boom box quick short story. we were performing as boombox. We were getting ready to play at the caboose in Minneapolis and there was another act also coming to the booze called the boombox and we were getting emails like [00:44:00] Yo what's going on with this show? And I'm like that's not us. And then we got a cease and desist letter from the other band and one of the guys was like the nephew of somebody in the grateful dead or something like that. So so they were lured up lawyered up. so we stopped being boombox and that's when we became MPLS. All right. And so we started writing our own songs. We became artists. And I mentioned this because that group was full of people that I love. That group my sister's in that group my close friends are in that group my new friends are in that group that group was built on the hang right? It was the way it felt when we were all together that would propel us on stage right? And so those relationships mattered more to me than the success of the group if that makes Stephen: It makes perfect sense. Brandon: Yeah. And so with that being said approaching that group was like it was it's just a hang you know? And before we would start every show we would go all right [00:45:00] potluck on three one two three potluck. Because everybody brought something different a different background a different style but we loved each other and we were a group. And so those lines for me like I was never able to I wouldn't try to like. Be a super professional bossy type tone with those people. it didn't happen you know Now that doesn't mean like in rehearsals. I was still the person that would say oh that's not how it goes Let's do it this way. All right do it again whatever like I was still that but there was never any time where I could be Like man y'all know how we're supposed to do this daughter that I like I just that wasn't that and I wanted to sometimes you know what I mean? But that's just not the way we were designed. and so which is completely different from how I would have to be in any other scenario right? Stephen: sounds like it's ultimately just about good communication skills no Good communication skills and knowing your people knowing your knowing your people knowing how to lead those people. Brandon: I've worked with people [00:46:00] who if I said Hey let's try that one more time. And this time I would like for you to play it this way. That person hears it as. I suck. I'm terrible. He doesn't like me. They hear it different than how I intended it right? And and I don't think that I've ever been loud or aggressive or you know it's never been any of that for me from from my perspective. but people have received it that way you know and so knowing people. Is in knowing your people is really really important because it teaches you how you handle them. Like I know this person over here I can say X Y Z to this person. I can't say it that way. I have to change that. So that has been a big big part of how I have to lead is kind of just person by person. They get their own style of leadership you know? Especially when you're friends with these people. Stephen: Yeah. Not everybody's going to react the same [00:47:00] way. people need different management need different leadership. that makes perfect sense. Is that something that has come? Naturally to you over the years because you've sort of watched leaders do this and you've learned from them is it something that you've learned by making mistakes and then just reflecting on it? Brandon: not necessarily from other people because honestly I think it think it's newer. I think it is more recent you know falling in line with the times. We're way more conscious of mental health now than we ever have been before. Right. And so like one of the things I constantly compare it to is like Growing up playing like football there's YouTube videos on this stuff. Like those coaches God the stuff that they say to these children. Oh man it's abusive. It is abusive. And it's aggressive. And I can't imagine walking into a rehearsal talking to my friends that way. Right. But my friends leave rehearsal as if I spoke to them that way. You know I mean like it's been is there has been situations where I'm like [00:48:00] These people don't know what what is really like right? And so when I say it's more recent it's because if you catch rehearsal tapes of James Brown or you know any people from that era the way that bands were led and ran back then is we wouldn't make it. We would not make it right now. the state of you know the mental state of a musician right now we're fragile in comparison to what those guys and and and girls had to endure. So I do think it's a new thing and it's not necessarily something I learned from mistakes. What one of my biggest takeaways from being a music director again as I mentioned with people that I care about and so it mattered to me how I deal with these people the relationship outside of the music still matters to me. And so having to navigate that I think is really what kind of made me learn how to [00:49:00] you know step back from how I feel about whatever situation and then just kind of try to understand where this person is at. and that's kind of the the gift and the curse because I know my friends and I know what they're actually going through so I can be understanding you know but sometimes the flip side is it's unfair to ask that of me knowing that I'm the person in this position to lead but you want me to you want me to ignore all of the things that I'm supposed to do because we're you know because I know what you're Stephen: You're asking me to make exceptions that I'm not making for everyone else or myself. Brandon: Exactly. Exactly. Which is tough but you learn you learn you learn how to navigate. And so that's why I think like I said earlier it's know the people. You have to know the person you're talking to before you can say follow me. Stephen: And be able to just have effective communication. Maybe that's going to be amongst the entire group to set a tone when when [00:50:00] that needs to happen. And it might be one on one occasionally of like listen you know we have to talk about this thing and I understand your situation but this is where it's at. Like we have to you know being able to fix a problem if one arises. Brandon: 100%. I'll share this real quick and I won't say his name cause I'm not sure how he would feel about me telling this story but I had a band leader you know I was maybe. Let's say 20 21 22 something somewhere in there and I'm living on my own and music was all I was doing. And I was starting to take gigs outside of that band that I was working for because I needed more money. And it came down to I would sub that gig if I had a gig that paid more and he was offended. And he did not appreciate finding out that I was subbing his gig to do something else. And one what I dig what I've learned from that is he didn't bash me about it. He [00:51:00] didn't fire me. He didn't do he didn't do any shenanigans. He simply called my phone and said let's talk. What's going on? How many bands are you playing with? Stephen: Yeah. Brandon: having to say to him man I got to pay my rent man. I got to make money. so if another gig comes up that's offering me a certain amount of money I'm going to take it. I don't mean any disrespect to you. I apologize but that's where I'm at right now. And he said to me As your band leader your bills and what's your that's none of my business. And at the time I thought that that was wild wildly inconsiderate in all of that stuff. It blew my mind that he said that to me but he further explained he said I understand needing to make money. That all makes sense. But That's your responsibility. My responsibility is to run this [00:52:00] band and this band runs on its players being committed. And you said you were going to be here when you signed up. Right. And so we had this company he said and and to make matters even worse as your leader you could have talked to me. You could have said here's what I need. You didn't even give me a chance to counter offer to say can pay you more on this one. Because there are times where I can't in my young brain. I'm thinking well then you should have if you can pay me more than pay me more. But I mentioned that because I think it's very very real and very powerful that he was able to have that moment with me. And from that moment I think I learned a lot too like how I am with the music director too. Like I have to draw those boundaries. I have to be able to say I understand what you're going through but we need to separate that for a moment. If there's ever a time where you need to be late or miss something here's how you have to handle that. And then on the offshoot you can say[00:53:00] you know me and you can hang out and you can talk to me about your problems but The time when we're all at rehearsal and it started 15 minutes ago and then you text me the sob story. That's not the time for that. You know what I mean? Like we can do that before or after I got a lot from that moment and it and it it taught me how to handle my business as a musician. It taught me how to separate as a leader you know without being a jerk about it you know cause he was not mean to me in that conversation by the way. so I take that with me a lot like the personal stuff like that's just none of my business you know as your leader that's not my concern. You have to deal with that. I also have my own stuff I have to deal with and I'm here you know so yeah I kind of lost my train of thought but I wanted to I did want to get that story out. Stephen: I think that's a great story to share and if you're in a new band right maybe you're just starting to play shows You may not have an official music director at this point yet. Everybody might be just sort of [00:54:00] working together and figuring it out but I think that a lot of times somebody sort of emerges as the leader and is sort of organizing things and running. And I just think that if you find that that's you That it's important to to listen to those kind of stories and to really think about how you are leading so that your group stays together but that you can be as effective as possible and stay friends with these people after perhaps this group dissolves or if somebody moves away or for any of the myriad of reasons why bands end. As long as you can stay professional when you need to be professional and friends when you can be friends things will work a lot better for you. On the mindset conversation let's shift a little bit over to mindset of a performer versus a director musical director. Because you've stepped onto some big stages and had high pressure situationstalk a little bit about what's going through your head particularly maybe at the [00:55:00] start of those of those experiences where you start stepping on big stages big audiences you know high pressure gigs what have you done to prepare yourself mentally? And maybe even more than that maybe just even for those gigs whatever comes to mind to be successful on stage. Brandon: Yeah that's a good question man. preparation is what makes me comfortable. I don't like that feeling of going on stage and not knowing what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't like that feeling of rehearsal. So To me it's it's the relationship that you have with learning music. and so for me like when we talk about the Mint Condition gig right? So I started with Mint in May of 2008. I think Chris Dave had just did a show with them in April. I don't know if you're familiar with the drummer in town his name is Brian Kendrick. Brian is one of my lifelong mentors not just on drums but just as a person. I love BK and [00:56:00] BK was doing the mint gig. He was subbing mint dates up until I started. And I remember he said to me one day he said be imagined showing up to a gig. And there's 150 drummers in the room. All expecting to see Chris Daddy Dave And then you go up there and you got to do your thing right? so going into my first gig I had that conversation in my mind And so anyway What I know saved me what made me comfortable to sit down in that chair and play that gig was my relationship with the music now obviously they have Plenty of live arrangements but I don't think there's anyone on the planet who knew the music more than me. I've been playing that stuff for years growing up. I would practice to their albums all of that stuff. And so to tie in that contemporary literature class to tie in the art factor knowing the music is where you gain the [00:57:00] confidence to just go up there and play. Right. And I mean you know Everyone says the cliche stuff like practice makes perfect or you talk to your favorite hero and he says just got to practice. And then we'll all know about the 10 000 hours. it's very real. The more time that you can spend preparing yourself for whatever situation you want to be in the more confident you're able to be right. So I might not be. insanely creative with chops and drum fills. That's not the type of player that I am. I may not be a lot of things on drums. Like we like you mentioned there's always somebody better. There are there are better people who auditioned for that gig. but I got it right. And so I use that and I took that and said I'm here for a reason. Whatever that reason is I'm here and I gotta get on this plane and I gotta get on stage and I have to show up I made sure that I was ready to play the music because that for me is the only way that I'm going to be able to be able to settle and not have to worry. Anything else can happen. We could be [00:58:00] playing on a stage that's on fire but we rehearsed yesterday so I'm cool. I know these songs. I'm ready. Like. that's what it is for me that that calms all the nerves and I was plenty nervous on that first gig plenty nervous. I mean I remember even just in rehearsals my first couple of rehearsals that were like official rehearsals outside of the audition phase. I remember on the very like the intro music. The first three times we ran the show and in the night of the first show I broke a stick in my right hand playing the bell on the ride cymbal each time because of how much like adrenaline and force I was putting into playing zero technique. Like it was just all like force for no reason at all. But it was my nerves you know and I broke a stick the same way. Four times and I probably haven't broken four sticks in a year's time span but I [00:59:00] did so I knew how I had to chill how I had to swallow down a little bit and then it just got easier you know but for me it was always like when you know the set list you know the tunes or even talking about that band my band MPLS We would play better if we spent a lot of time together leading up to the show. And so we played a show in Chicago at the house of blues and we drove down the morning of so we were in the van for eight hours. We got to Chicago. We went and had a late lunch together. We went and did a sound check and we had a phenomenal gig. And it was only because of the time we spent together. So like it's just a lot of different things that as a performer you learn who you are how you function and you have to settle into these routines right? one of my buddies I mentioned him earlier Eric like he had a a pre show routine that he would do. Little exercises and stuff and I always thought it was funny. It was hilarious to me. But now [01:00:00] I look at it like Whatever you do like just having something that you do to get you where you need to I think that's dope like and it's very very smart I I would encourage anyone to doesn't matter what your thing is don't listen to what other people's thing are just figure out what works for you what's gonna get you to be your best self when you sit on your instrument and I got lucky because for me no matter how nervous I am you Like I said one the one thing that's going to be for sure is I know the music. I'm never going to be on stage not knowing that's just not how I roll. But two as a performer that moment of when you've just been announced and whoever's counting off whether I'm counting off or I hear the slate to my ears that one two three four to start the show. That is my favorite moment. in music like the way that that feels the anticipation of starting the show I've fallen in love with that moment almost every single night that we play. Like I love [01:01:00] that man. Like the payoff is like that anticipation and and you know you're prepared and you know this is going to be good or you're just going to try your best whatever like that. One two three man. That's my favorite part. That's my favorite part for sure. Stephen: That's so great how about on the same topic Have you dealt with getting constructive feedback? Cause along the way of course you've gotten constructive feedback. Brandon: Yeah boy. Stephen: How do you process it? Do you have that initial you know little Brandon: Oh listen it's going to sting no matter what. It's going to sting and I and I I've told the story. I have no problems telling it right. So we talk about Michael Bland being one of my mentors. If you know Michael he's very honest. He's a straight shooter and at the time at this time of my life he was calling me pretty regularly to cover for the combo I remember shooting him a message an email or something after one of them. When I said cause he I hadn't heard from him [01:02:00] and I said so all right how did I do? And he said well apparently you rush on the courses especially when you're jumping over to the ride tempo fluctuates until you fix that. I can't have you back up there. Stephen: Wow. Brandon: Yeah man that was like a ton of bricks just falling on me but I respected I respected him for letting me know. Stephen: And it's specific. Brandon: It's very specific which is great right? Because now I know what to do now. I know what I exact. That's real feedback. And I would assume that a person who doesn't say that to me doesn't care. I'm not even here to say whether he cares about me or not. But he cared enough in that moment to let me know this is what it is. And I dig that man. I dig that. Now obviously I had Things to work on. that's a whole nother conversation. Like I drummers and timing I could talk about that for hours by the way but I appreciated that type of feedback you [01:03:00] know and same thing. And with the mint gig You know having to settle in and play something. Oh I actually let me let me let me run back. The plane would just live. that was like my gig. There was no other drummer at the time. Like that was my thing. And they gave me a lot of freedom. and we were playing along the tracks and so the tempo was always locked. You know we were playing to the click. All of that stuff was already in place. but For a brief moment we had two guys from in the band. One is Justin Charbonneau guitar player and Ian Allison bass player. And the shows that they did with us they one of them they pulled me to the side and said yeah man dude you're great. You're awesome man. Some of those fills are killing but I want you to Like like a real pro player. I want you to be a real pro player. So just I want you to play the same thing every time. to figure out what that setup is going to be and let's let's make it the same every time. And [01:04:00] at the time I didn't know how to take that. cause I had I was already on the main gig. And so it was like I knew how to settle down. You know I knew how to have to play parts. I was a part player but apparently on the maybe I was wilding out. I have no idea but that threw me for a loop at first just you know cause they told me right after the show. So it was like the high of a show and then it just kind of came crashing down. But seconds later I'm like yeah I do need to get it together. Right. And from that moment like I was a lot more intentional with how I was approaching like he as a drummer you know how to. Okay. This is the end of the verse. How are we going to set up the chorus? There's got to be some sort of feel. It doesn't have to be crazy lightning fast or anything but how are you going to set up the next section? Right. Which is a responsibility a lot of drummers take. so I was a lot more intentional a lot more thoughtful playing the music and not just playing drums. So yeah. So there's been plenty of moments of [01:05:00] of constructive criticism and feedback Stephen: But that's emotional maturity because you're able to then take something a comment a critique any sort of feedback and get better. That's what happens if you can be emotionally mature versus just reacting and fighting and arguing. And I think that for some people that happens more naturally probably based on how they're raised and how they communicate with people but. You know everybody can learn that. it's common to have it sting like you said. To have it right away go ugh. just don't respond right away. Like process it. think about it for a moment and think well is there a point here? Is there something to be learned? Brandon: Right. And because if you study right what whatever it is you're doing I've had a huge interest in recording and production. And so I started studying other drummers musicians who also do that. So when we talk about Michael Bland Michael Bland is a very consistent player right? And and I saw someone [01:06:00] else mentioning that about Steve Gould on on on the last episode right? And so knowing That these conversations are happening knowing in first and recording engineers are a drummer's nightmare for that. Like if you can't handle feedback don't talk to a studio engineer because they wear drummers out by the way. And so knowing that I know and then I'm starting to record myself in my studio. And so I could go back and look at the tracks and see where my discrepancies are. You can see it. If you can't hear it you can see it. If you don't feel it you can see where I played the snare louder here softer here all of that stuff. Stephen: One of the great things about recording just to interject real quick is how educational it is for that reason alone. Brandon: 100%. And so yeah my point is as they say the recording is the most honest thing. Like you have to record yourself. If you're a band record your rehearsals. [01:07:00] If you are practicing the shedding on your own record it because you will hear the things that you can't feel in real time. And that is where you learn. That is where you're able to grow. And honestly It's how you get introduced to yourself you know because it's like holding a mirror right? And so if you don't know who you are if you don't know how you are just record it just record it I would say that that is a Big big big part of the learning is having these tools and these resources because now whether you get any feedback or construct like these tapes and people put you on YouTube and reels you know at your shows and all that stuff. So it's there it's there Stephen: Yeah, it is. And it's an underutilized way of self educating I would say. Obviously there's there's people that are very active recording and things like that but the amount of times I have clients in the studio that. Watch and pay [01:08:00] attention and or ask like Hey is there something here that you're seeing that's consistent? You know that's rare. It is rare. There's not a lot of people use that opportunity which is fine. Everybody might have be on a different journey and be thinking about what they want to get out of it. But if you're serious about the self improvement and. growing your musicianship growing your ear being able to hear the little differences. The recording studio is a great place to do it. And also you know audio recording but video recording your shows too. So you can think about your stage presence and you know how entertaining you are how how the jam looks that sort of thing. Obviously that matters more in certain genres and certain audiences and that sort of thing but it's good to do regardless. If you're on stage know that you look good being on stage. Brandon: I think a big thing that I would say to anyone is you have to be very clear about what it is you're trying to accomplish. Like if you're in your early 20s and you [01:09:00] decide you want to be a musician or whatever like whenever you know that you want to be something in this. You got to get clear about what those goals are going to be because that will determine the path you need to take right? And so I say that because a lot of artists And now maybe not so much now that we have so much information available on the music business and how things are working But I've just seen over the years a lot of artists make these smallest mistakes just by not having the correct plan you know And all of that stuff that we're talking about it matters To a certain extent to me. and I'm I will not be of the popular opinion on this because like when we talk about Steve Gould he's a monster musician right? And his level of consistency is great if you want to be a studio player you know his level of consistency is not What is absolutely necessary for you to be a good touring drummer you know what I [01:10:00] mean? So there are different things So I would just really get real about what your focus is if you want to make records then yeah you want to make sure You are crossing your T's and dotting all your I's when it comes to your performance. You know what I mean? We used to talk about this all the time in my band. We would try to We weren't looking for a record deal you know we weren't looking to get signed. We wanted to play shows and kill these shows. We were trying to get more into the festival thing and all of that. So we didn't spend a lot of time like just hanging around in the studio. For example we rehearsed you know what I mean? So it's just like or an artist who I hear people say Oh maybe you've heard this over the years to people who used to want to make you know get the song on the radio you know I want to hear my song on the radio. Then what? Right. So now you've made a song for the radio and then what what do you do you know? So it's like just knowing what you're after and [01:11:00] then it gives you a whole blueprint of things to study to get after that you know? that's really what I've I've been doing at honestly at the expense of my musicianship. Like I don't have as much time on the kit anymore. It's more like just practicing and refining because. I'm on the computer now. I'm writing songs and learning a lot about production and I'm just starting to like mix my own stuff now. So it's a whole nother world for me now right? And I don't have time to sit around and bang the drums like I used to you know what I mean? I would love to. I'm doing a lot more now than I had been but you know these are the choices you got to Stephen: Absolutely. it's a timely conversation given that we're at the end of the year here because a lot of people will be setting goals and be thinking about by the time this episode comes out we'll we'll be into 2024 a fair ways. But be clear about your goals and then set intentions of you know what you're how you're going to spend your time making sure that those line up with your actual goals seem simple but a lot of [01:12:00] people don't actually follow through on on all of that. I have another Probably hour of questions for you on on the on the producing and the recording side on the sync side I we're just I'm going to have to have you back for that. I want to ask you one more Sort of mindset kind of question before we wrap up because I think this is such a relevant real life thing for a lot of people which is how do you deal with planning for the future when it comes to being the type of musician that you are which is. Boom. Tomorrow you're flying to Arizona. I think right. you're doing tours with different groups. you have your hands in sync world. So you have income coming in in different places you're doing some teaching but it's always like well this opportunity comes up. I'll take that. And this can't plan for for a lot of that. So how does it how do you go about figuring out? The future financial planning all that kind of stuff. Because you are successful. I mean a lot of people are going to look at you and go you got it made but I want you to talk to talk to that and how life is affected [01:13:00] by that. Brandon: Oh man that's a big one. you have to be adaptable. You have to be willing to and able to pivot in order to plan a future. Right. And then again as we just discussed moments ago Identifying your goals and then the intentionality behind them. And then you kind of got to examine not necessarily a plan B but what are you going to do if this step if step number five doesn't work what are you going to do to still make sure you can get to six and seven? Right. And so for me that is always changing. I have not been able to say. By the end of this year I'm going to have this that and the third but I have gotten in the last. Two or three years post pandemic I've gotten a lot better by about establishing my goals. like right now my whiteboard I have the projects I'm working on what's already completed. What are [01:14:00] my big goals? What do I need to do today? Like so just planning out the day or the week ahead is a huge help for me. you have to be very real about what it is you're doing right? And you know one of the things that happened for me during the pandemic was you know more time on social media and being bombarded every day with this hyper productivity. you know even now like I had to accept I am not a content creator. So now what am I gonna do? Right? Because we are in the era of content and it's readily available You know you know the game right And there are things telling you every day if you don't do this you're not going to be successful in the music business you know and I'm not here to say that that's right or wrong. I'm saying I know that I am not on my own able to record my video edit my [01:15:00] video post my video and sustain that. I can't do that by myself. I'm that's not the guy that I that's just not where I'm at. You know my daughter wouldn't will not allow that you know what I mean? So I have to identify what I can do. Right. And so I could easily go back and get my job at Amazon for example but that's not who I am. I was able to transfer my leadership as a music director and go run a team over there but that's not what I do right? And so I have to dabble in different things. I am teaching I am writing and producing for TV and advertising and I'm performing as much as I possibly can. and man I saw this guy it's a drummer named Diamond. Diamond just finished Beyonce's renaissance tour. I saw a clip of him yesterday explaining this idea that people have to see things around seven times before they [01:16:00] before they even think twice about it right? So as a musician a writer any any creative you have to put yourself out there over and over again just for someone to even consider. The idea that you might be available to do what they need you to do. and so that kind of registered with me. Like I'm not getting ready to start running ads like drummer for hire or anything cause I'm not looking for that but I am going to be more intentional with my relationships in in that I already have. and letting them know like yeah I'm down to do stuff. I'm I'm down I'm down. And it might not be playing. It might be like yo man I'm fully set up to record at home. What do you need? Like I'd love to play on your stuff just building some more of that. and not letting. You know that fear that we spoke about earlier stop me. Stephen: Yeah. Brandon: Yeah. So how to plan for future. It really just looks like you one mapping out your goals right? And then kind of determining what is really obtainable like what's real you know it's good to dream. That's [01:17:00] great. Start there. But like what can we accomplish today that will lead to tomorrow? You know and then the people around you your support system your family your spouse you know what are they up to? And how are they able to contribute to your success as well? How do you rely on your family to help you know carry the load? Like That that matters too you know and maybe you're young maybe you're fresh out of high school and college by yourself and trying to figure it out. So maybe you don't have that type of support system which is it's still doable you know what I mean? And so I think as we talked about earlier it's just getting real about goals man goal setting and Stephen: Accountability. Brandon: Accountability and being task oriented right? And that's for me. I don't really enjoy sitting still like days off are usually miserable for me. Umso when we talk about like the dark side right? Like catching up on my couch which I use it by. Oh man Tuesday I get to just kind of chill watch some TV and then five minutes. I'm like. What are you doing? [01:18:00] You got thousands of dollars of equipment downstairs and you're watching millionaires on TV What is wrong with you? Like that's what's going on in my head So or like growing up my parents were touring the world both maintaining day jobs still gigging locally Never missed a band concert never missed a basketball game my sister was involved in cheerleading and track. They did all that. Exactly Bro my mom forgive me mom my mom is 70 about to turn 72. She gigs as much as me. If not more. Okay. My mom is still doing these things. when we talked about that band MPLS we were playing every Wednesday night at Bunkers. At the time my mom was doing hairspray at Chanhassen. Stephen: hmm. Brandon: She brought the entire cast down to Bunkers one night after their show and this was on a Wednesday so on Wednesdays they had a matinee and an evening show and she still brought them all down and they danced till one in the morning at Bunkers I haven't even gotten started on my [01:19:00] father like so that type of hustle is in me that work ethic is instilled in me and my sister and so if I'm sitting around I'm I think about my parents like you know my daughter's like daddy can you play with me? And I don't want to Stephen: Yeah. Brandon: I go back to your parents were touring working still made it to every basketball game every band concert all of that stuff. So that's what kind of pushes me. learning what it really means to set a goal get task oriented and then make a plan and just day by day even if it's finding 10 minutes in every day 10 15 minutes every day of something that leads towards your goal. You know? Yeah Stephen: Well thank you so much for making time for this conversation I've enjoyed it so much. I Brandon: man, and it just goes on and Stephen: I I definitely have more I want to talk to you about so I'm going to you know in the [01:20:00] future I'm going to have you back out here and we can do this again and dive into the other stuff we missed but I really appreciate you sharing all that. I think it was really really beneficial. at the end of all these episodes I've been asking people what their secret is to the scene. You know you've been a local guy here huge success. If you had to boil it down to something that you know one important tip that you want to leave to the younger generation what would you say? Brandon: There's so many Stephen: know it could it could relate to since so much of this has been on mindset and leadership and relationships communication it could be in that department or if something else comes to mind but thanks Brandon: remember that you are a human being. You're not a machine. You're not a workhorse. Those ideas are antiquated. I am team productivity. that's what I thrive in. But it does not mean that I don't get tired. It does not mean that I don't get sick. Does [01:21:00] not mean that I don't have emotional challenges that I experience. Remember that no matter what you do you're still a human so give yourself grace give the people around you grace. I think that will make a lot of things better right? And I will really briefly just touch on I was watching Trevor Noah on Netflix and he was speaking to in America. We identify ourselves by what we do. So if someone says tell me about you you say Oh I'm a doctor. I'm a lawyer nowhere else in the world. Do they identify themselves as what they do? Right? So my name is Brandon Commodore and I'm a cool person to hang out with. I love documentaries. I love grilling. That's the human. That's who I am. And I would. Tell everyone to start there. Remember who that person [01:22:00] is at all times. and take that with you into your rehearsals into your production meetings into your business meetings. Take that person with you. Even if you have to wear a professional hat Brandon has to be a professional. There is not Brandon and the professional if that makes sense. So remember you're a human. Stephen: for sharing. If people want to connect with you follow you online hit up a show or anything like that where do you send them? Brandon: Yeah right now I wouldn't really have anywhere to send you. I'm on Instagram I'm on Facebook but 2024 I have made it a goal and intention to post more content. I have been recording and capturing footage all 2023 because I don't Want to have to keep up with creating. So I have a lot of stuff in the in the in the can. That's going to be out and available for everybody to see you know early 2024. So Instagram and YouTube will be the place. Stephen: your Instagram handle? Brandon: Instagram Brandon Commodore [01:23:00] at Brandon Commodore. Stephen: I'll have the links in our show notes. And for everyone that listened to the episode watched the episode on YouTube I would really love any sort of feedback. it's still you know we're only a handful of episodes in really and there's a lot more to go. So your feedback is really valuable to me to decide how these episodes should be formatted what kind of guests you want to hear from. I definitely read every message and every email. So please if you liked it subscribe like leave comments that sort of thing and just connect with us at secrets from the scene. Thanks everyone. See you next time. [01:24:00]