Ep. 20: Behind the Scenes at Green Room with Tanner Montague

[00:00:00] Stephen: On today's episode of secrets from the scene. I've got Tanner Montague here. Tanner is the co owner general manager and talent buyer for the newest one, at least meant one of the newest venues in the twin cities, the green room located in uptown, and if you haven't been yet, you've. Absolutely got to see a show there. It's a fantastic venue. One of my favorite places in town. I'm excited to have Tanner on to hear the venues perspective of what makes for a [00:01:00] good live show. What makes for a good live music scene really in the twin cities. But what's particularly cool about Tanner is that he is a musician. So this is a venue run by a musician for musicians I think that that really can help make this place last a long time. Tanner's got a background in drumming. He's done video production. He's played on cruise ships as a musician. There's a lot to this guy and I'm excited to learn more. Please welcome Tanner Montague. Tanner: That was a good one. Thank you. Stephen: Even one try Tanner: Yeah, smooth. It's good to be here. Stephen: it's nice to have you. We met a while back, I think at maybe the turf club and. Tanner: turf club or ice house? Stephen: Yeah, and right away I was just so impressed by your story given that you're a young dude Running a new venue in town and at that time I hadn't been to the green room I just knew it was opening Tanner: feel like it was cold outside. Which means we had just Stephen: Yeah I think that's the case and some other bands maybe had played there [00:02:00] early on in the in the opening days and that I had worked with and so in any case, I've, I've been there since and it's an impressive place, man. It's really cool. What was the previous business there? Oh, Tanner: it was a nightclub, sports bar, situation called Poor House. And they had their second location, could have been their third, I know they had one in Dinkytown for a time, and then, they had the Uptown location, that closed. Couple months before I kind of got hold of it, and then before that it was a fine dining restaurant. Stephen: Yes. Tanner: built as a fine dining restaurant. You'll see the chandeliers and the, oak hardwood flooring. That's all from the fine dining restaurant. Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. It's a classy place. It's cool. All right. Oh, I want to dive all into the green room, of course, for this episode, but let's start with giving people a little bit of a background on you. you know, we've chatted a little bit and you have some interesting experiences that I think are unique and worth covering, but particularly just the fact that, you know, you got into this business as a [00:03:00] musician and you still play in local bands. You're in two bands now, Valor's and Covalent Blonde. but you know, walk people through your, your background, where you're from. How you got into this and, you know, lead us up to today. Tanner: Sure, Yeah, so I'm from Seattle. I just yesterday, got back from a holiday in Seattle, grew up there, played a little music , in high school and middle school, had a private drum teacher that was like the guy. I grew up on a, in a small island, essentially a small town right outside Seattle. if you wanted to be a drummer or if you thought your kid wanted to be a drummer, you would, you would go work with this guy named Todd. And so he had just a. wild, resume of students that he taught over the years that have gone on to do really, really cool things. a lot of them are my good friends and, bit of, uh, role models for me as I was growing up. and that definitely sparked the desire to be like a professional musician. Stephen: Yeah. Tanner: I didn't play much in Seattle before college. I just went right to college in St. Paul at [00:04:00] McNally Smith, right after graduating high school. Went to Minnesota. Did that for four years. that was really fun. Got to meet some great people and work with some incredible instructors I liked it because they were, they were musicians first and teachers second. Take that as how you will, they were playing out. So every time we had a class, they'd be like, yeah, we're playing at Dakota tonight, Monday night, you guys should come. No one would show up, but I would, I would go. Cause they would just, it would be so cool to see these guys just do what they, what they really love. Got a job on cruise ships as a musician four days after graduation. Graduated on a Saturday, drove home to Seattle Sunday, Monday, 24 hour drive. I've done that drive so many times. 94 to I 90. I don't like sleeping. I don't, I didn't have any money to get a hotel. so I would just drive and if I needed to Take a 20 minute nap. I would just pull over got back to Seattle I think on a Tuesday and then my flight to my first cruise ship contract was Wednesday morning Stephen: Whoa. So w were you intending to, [00:05:00] to work on cruise ships? Okay. Yeah. So that was in the plan. Tanner: well Junior year it was my plan. I think first bit college Honestly, the reason I went to music school was because of my mother Stephen: Mm-Hmm? Tanner: When I was a junior in high school, I was really into playing soccer. I was,into music and I was actually into acting, like theater. And, uh,I considered going to school for all three, or for one of the three. my mom sort of pushed me to look into music. I don't know. If it was our idea of the most realistic option of like having a career because they're all sort of tough I, uh,But I remember junior year. She really pushed me to she was like, okay, we're doing this. We're doing a we're doing a college tour so had a couple schools in LA that we wanted to go look at And then one in Minnesota that she found she honestly did all the work, because again, I was just kind of like, Okay, I'm kind of a bad student in all the gen eds of high school. I'm playing a lot of music. you know, [00:06:00] I'm playing some soccer when that time of year comes around. But music was the big thing, and she noticed that. Then, the, the cruise ship thing, Halfway through college, she was like, You love boating. You love boats. You love water. You grew up on an island. Don't you think cruise ships would be fun? Like, you can play drums on a cruise ship. And I was like, sure. Stephen: argue with Tanner: not? Sounds great. Travel. Get paid to do it. and then I got obsessed with that idea. And spent, I think she actually told me this. Gave me, like, sparked this idea during winter break of junior year of college. So for the next few months leading into spring and summer of that year, I just did research on how to get a job. it led to finding an agent or, auditioning for different agencies. and then I, I got obsessed with the idea of like this summer, the upcoming summer, I'm going to spend it on a cruise ship. It's going to be perfect. I'm good enough. Like I'll see the world. Why not? I auditioned for, I think four agencies and they all, two of them responded, two of them didn't. The two that responded [00:07:00] turned me down and said, I wasn't good enough. Try again later. So I went home to Seattle and worked at the hotel that I work at. but then senior year I tried again got a contract, I believe a month before graduation. I got notified of it. And then I flew to Denmark for that ship. Stephen: I had a previous intern that went on to work on cruise ships and I think, I don't think he's doing it anymore, but for a few years and I mean, it's incredible musicians that are playing those shows and, it sounds like such a cool, cool opportunity. Tanner: I have some people in my life, some like younger musicians that I frequently am like, man, I really think you should try the cruise ship out. Cause like travel is. A no brainer. Go see the world. Get paid to see the world. But if you can approach it with the right mentality, the, the music, the chance to play music, the chance to sight read, to work on all these different styles, to meet all these different musicians, there's nothing like it. Stephen: I agree. I would, I think that more than likely the big barrier is sight [00:08:00] reading for a lot of musicians. Tanner: but as with any challenge and the way I take it is like you just kind of jump in you will prevail just jump in the pool. You'll figure out how to swim there were times when rehearsals on a cruise ship are very tense, especially if you don't know how to sight read if you miss a turnaround if you miss some hits if you the coda or repeat or whatever the rest of your band will Not speak to you for 24 hours or at least until the show is done at least until you buy them a drink at the bar later that night And that kind of tension is very real and will push you to never experience that again again. They're all great musicians. They've been doing this for years probably and They can sight read they probably don't care about playing the show as much so they just want to get it over with and Yeah, anyway, it was a very cool experience Stephen: Yeah. You know, I, at some point, and actually there's more than one person I know that's been done the cruise ship route. That might be a whole nother episode because I think it's, it's pretty fascinating and it's, it does take a lot to do those shows like the prep and, and [00:09:00] how much material you learn and all that. But you decide to stop doing that and you get back on land, what happens next? Tanner: it was, I think five years later there was a contract finishing. And,I don't know, I was, I'm still young, but then I was even younger and I was sort of tired of the cruise ship life, which is crazy ' cause it's, again, you get, you never know where you're gonna go. But I was tired of it. And, I wanted to be a land musician. I wanted to experience. getting paid to play drums at a dive bar down the street, which I honestly had never really done except for maybe once in college. so finished the cruise ship contract, go back to Seattle. that was going to be my home base. I, was going to be a private teacher, joined some bands. I saved up all this money. I spent a little bit of it on like, my brand. That was my thing. I wanted like a brand as a, as a, as a, as a freelance musician entrepreneur. I printed out all these flyers for my, private lesson and, and I hit up all these bands and I joined a [00:10:00] few of them. I did this all within one week of getting off the cruise ship and being in Seattle. And, if you guys remember COVID, came. very strong and it, hit the U. S. and it started with Seattle. so one week after I got off the cruise ship, honestly on day eight of being home, everything starts shutting down. Bars, clubs, a lot of the gigs I already had, were getting canceled. and then we go into lockdown and Stephen: That'll change your plans real Tanner: so much for a, for a land musician life. Stephen: Yeah. How'd you end up back in Minnesota then? Tanner: I think nine months later, you know, we all got a little restless and figured out how to make money or, or do what we love. I got into video production Stephen: Oh, right, Tanner: and I started like a business that was based off high quality live streaming, mobile live streaming. Stephen: yes. Tanner: By mobile I mean like, I want to help a band put on a show. And, we can do it anywhere. We could do it in someone's backyard, we could do it in a rented, obviously like the thought was open air, big space, don't need to [00:11:00] wear masks, keep everyone safe. yeah, so I just, I, I bought a bunch of gear and I, and I started a video production company that was, that was centered around live streaming music. and that sort of progressed into,live streaming weddings and other events that people want to see. Funerals. I did a lot of funerals. but one in particular, there was a, annual holiday. There's a Christmas show that happens here in St. Paul or in Minnesota. and they normally sell out like pretty big theaters around the city. obviously that year they couldn't do an in person show. So they wanted to do, they opted to do a, live stream. People pay for a ticket to get the link. They watch the show and, my friends were a part of it, friends from college. And, they asked me if I wanted to produce and direct the whole show. and it ended up being a nine camera, two hour live stream, Stephen: Wow. Tanner: with a jib arm and two wireless cameras Stephen: That's the real Tanner: on a gimbal. so I got flown out and I was here for 10 days and put that thing on. [00:12:00] And I say this because that was my first time back in Minnesota Stephen: Mm-Hmm. Tanner: since college. I got to see a lot of old friends and go to the same bars and go to the same music venues that I remembered and went to from college and first nine months of COVID is, was so tough and life changing for everyone. I was understandably a little tired of Seattle. And so I was literally on the flight home from Minnesota from this holiday show. I was so moved. about the experience that I just had. The show went off, all things considered, wonderfully. and it was so cool to see all these old friends, and yeah, on the flight I was like, I texted my mom I think I said, I think I'm gonna move to Minneapolis. I texted her because I know she would tell me, like, she would bring up like, well, you know, but she was like, cool, I think you should do that. Stephen: She's like, get outta the then I texted my brothers, who are even more and, and, realistic and down to earth, they were also like, hell yeah, dude, do it. Sounds fun. Well, that's cool to have supportive people like [00:13:00] that in your life. That'll encourage you to take those risks. And yeah, absolutely. What was the Christmas show? Tanner: who brought the humbug, uh, rhythm street movement, is a. Tap dancing. It's centered around dance, with a, with a kick ass live band. It's kind of holiday funk. They do arrangements of popular songs. They bring in guest artists like Kat Perkins and, Alex Rossi. And,and we shot it at the garage. Stephen: Oh, cool. Tanner: we had that for a week. And that was my experience, first time being down there. and yeah, they just did, I think four nights at the Ames Center some theater, back in person. But yeah, that was a, it was a cool thing. I think we sold like 900 tickets. Stephen: That's cool. It's a huge event. Tanner: Yeah, it was very cool. Stephen: Right on. All right. So you moved back and this is kind of the point in the story where you start to get into booking. Yes. Tanner: after I decided to move back, I I got obsessed. I very quickly found a apartment to live in. my brother offered to help me. So we, he drove my car and I drove the moving van from Seattle [00:14:00] to St. Paul. I remember I got to St. Paul on Martin Luther King day, I remember everyone was like, why are you driving across the country in winter? to a colder place. And I was like, yeah, I don't know. We're just going to do it. It'll be fun. We'll get a story out of it. no precipitation on the drive. It was great. we get to St. Paul. I get my spot. I'm now in St. Paul in February of 2021. I still tried to do video production, just cause I was like, I was grinding, I was doing the freelance grind in Seattle, might as well do it in St. Paul, Minneapolis. did that for six months, maybe a year, but all the while I'm living right next to Keg and Case Market, in St. Paul. that spring, They reopened out of COVID and one of their big things was they had this big outdoor stage, beautiful park, grass, and, and a cool, like, shipping container style stage with, with a wooden stage. And it looked so cool and fun, and it was right next to my door to where I lived. so I reached out to them asking if they had any openings for bands,I also said, like, I know a [00:15:00] lot of bands, you know, I just was kind of like, hey, I want to be a part of this. they responded with, asking if I wanted to book one day of the week. They're like, yeah, you can have a gig, but would you want to book Thursdays? Every Thursday. We just need these days filled. You want to do it? Great. We have no budget. no money. You can give them free beer and everyone gets a meal from pimento. Stephen: Hey, pimentos good at Tanner: I was like, yeah, that's okay Let's see how this goes So I did that for a little while for the probably the remainder of that summer There were some bands that I that I got that great shows. It was all so fun A lot of them I paid out of my own pocket because I knew these guys wouldn't give me money to pay these bands They just wouldn't they don't have the money. They wouldn't get it I just, yeah, I wasn't very whatever, but, I paid a lot of bands out of my own pocket and I don't regret that. And it was super fun. It started a really cool thing. The next summer I end up running the market. someone got fired and they didn't really want to hire someone. So I was like, Hey, I'll do it. They asked me to be the market director of Keg and Case [00:16:00] Market, which I a hundred percent had no business doing. I was not qualified for that, but I'm totally down to like. Take rent from people from tenants inside this market and like oversee garbage cleanup We ended up kicking case is kind of doing its thing right now going through it we couldn't afford much so I was kind of doing everything I was taking out the garbage and I was cleaning the bathrooms and I was hiring the bands Which was what I really loved and that summer, and I think one more after that, it was just fun to build this stage up as a spot in St. Paul for free, outdoor music. I got really cool bands, they ended up giving me a decent budget, I was able to like, put some tech into the stage, we got a new sound system, I added places to hang lights, we made it like really We just built it up from what it was, and it was really fun. it was fun to see musicians enjoy it. Well, in retrospect to just how great of a primer this was going to be to lead up to your next thing. absolutely.[00:17:00] it was a, it was a blast. Stephen: we're kind of at the point of the story where green room starts to happen. So, walk people through. You know, how you got connected with your, business partner and what the process for opening a venue looked like. Tanner: so I have been doing Keg and Case for three years, two or three years. just kind of being a part of it, posting on my Instagram story all the fun adventures that we do. I get a text from a good friend. This good friend is my neighbor. where I live and also, owns a very well known craft brewery in town. he texts me and says, the text says, I have a friend that might be trying to open a music venue. would you be interested in meeting with him and, doing some consulting? Maybe it was a very like quick text that, I probably should've looked it up before I got here, but it was very like, I don't know what it's just go see him. He's, he's cool. He's a cool guy. so I was like, yeah, sure. And so I ended up texting the dude in question, the person in question. we had a zoom call. He was in [00:18:00] Nantucket on holiday and, we had a, it was very windy and his kids were running around. So we had a very hectic call and I was like out in the sun somewhere. I couldn't see anything on the screen, but, essentially it was like, Hey, so who are you, what do you do? do you want to look at this music venue with me? I was like, yeah, sure. I don't know what's going on. This sounds fun. Let's go look. So, when he got back in town like a month and a half later, I got a tour of this space that this gentleman had, possession of. He was on the lease. Stephen: Okay, so he had already purchased the space. He was looking at, at Tanner: He had the fine dining restaurant ten years ago. Stephen: Oh, okay. Tanner: So it's a, it was a long lease and,his name is still on the lease. Stephen: Yeah, Tanner: but the previous tenants were just tenants under him. They left, he now kind of inherits everything. He didn't, you know, and what the previous tenants left, they left a huge stage. They left a big sound system, kind of old, but just like big boxes. they left a lighting system. They left. Bunch of alcohol. they [00:19:00] just kind of left it how it was Essentially the question was like do you think this can work as a music venue? Do you? Want to open it yourself and I was like, yeah, here's what I think we need to do it Let's go and it's pretty much how it started Stephen: So from that point to when it actually opened, how long was that? Tanner: That first conversation was in June. In fact, I believe it was on my mother's birthday, oddly enough. June 2nd. so let's say July. From July till late January. he gave me the key, or he gave me access to the space right away. We, a lot of people that sort of I'm, that I'm friends with on Instagram, they were seeing I started doing like, just very coded, like, cryptic posts of just photos or videos because I didn't, I, it wasn't final. I didn't want to like jinx anything. But every day that went on it was like, oh, now I have the code for the building. Oh, now I have the, phone number for the building manager or whatever. and then it was just tearing down walls and putting new walls up and buying curtains Stephen: Yeah. Tanner: buying a lot of [00:20:00] plants, redesigning the bar, updating sound system, just a whole bunch of Stephen: Crazy. All right. So we've kind of covered your background as, you know, going to music school, becoming a drummer, being a professional drummer on a cruise ship for a while, starting a video production company, running a market. I don't know how else you'd call it, Kevin case, but multi vendor market with live music. Doing some booking there. All of these things are kind of like great primers into where you're at now as the general manager of the green room. So for everyone listening that has not been to the green room yet, because it is a new venue at the time that this episode comes out, it'll have been open a year just right around there. walk people through What the Green Room is all about, what makes it special, and what you guys are doing there with live music. Tanner: The green room is, located in Uptown Minneapolis, on the corner of Lagoon and Girard. We have a nice corner spot, two floors, it's got a balcony [00:21:00] outside, it's got a balcony inside, two bars, we have a full kitchen, huge stage, tall ceilings, plants everywhere, lots of neon, it is sophisticated and sexy and sounds great and feels cozy at the same time. I wanted it to be a spot that people want it to play. I want it to be a spot that people want to go to watch music. But the truthfully the first the motive behind it, was how can I make the stage feel the best for the, for the musicians? How can I make it sound the best? How can I make people want to play here? There's no ceiling to what i'm like. I have literally reached out to john mayer's booking agent Stephen: Mm. Tanner: No response, but like it would be so cool to see him on that intimate stage It sounds great. I try to hire nice people it's just a space that you want to be we have music six days a week Local music, mid level national acts, we'll stop through, we'll get the occasional, Earth, Wind, [00:22:00] and Fire every now and then, but yeah, primarily it's, it's local, local live music, Stephen: I agree with everything you've said about the venue. It is a really cool space. And, I think Phil's a nice need, you know, for, for local acts, especially being able to play in a Dakota esque kind of thing. it's, it's not the Dakota, it's not trying to be the Dakota, but it's got like a classier upscale feel. and great sound and I love the, that there's seating options and different levels and the plants are great touch. The chandeliers are nice. it's awesome. So if you haven't seen a show there, you absolutely should. I have a few logistical questions. Just, first of all, how many people do you manage at the green room? How much staff do you have? Tanner: right around ten, just a cool, cool ten. Stephen: what's your capacity? Tanner: Uh, our sellable cap is 4. 50 right now. Stephen: Okay. So you're handling a lot of things there. I know that. what's the hardest thing about booking your venue? Is it constantly finding people [00:23:00] or is it more of just the logistics of getting people organized? Tanner: The hardest thing is making money. I think every business goes through that. I'm very grateful. We, we have a inbox, an email inbox full of, of awesome bands and artists that want to play. Stephen: Yep. Tanner: and it's on me and my team to, simply just prioritize the shows that will do the best. And. we will always, it'll always be a space for, for local live music. but it's also a space for cover bands. It's also a space for, DJs, for dance parties. It is a space for people to, just hang out and have a good time. And it's, it, that doesn't always involve local live music, which has to happen. Initially, when I was opening it, I was like, this is going to be the spot. We're going to have all these bands here every night. It's going to be live music. in fact, we're, my plan was to only be open when we had a show versus we're open these days. We have to book a show every day. Stephen: Mm hmm. Tanner: we just gotta be open pretty much every day. So that's why [00:24:00] we're open every day. I think that's been the biggest challenge. Everything else has been a great learning experience,figuring out how to pay bills and how to manage people, how to make drinks, communicating is an art, especially when you're a manager. One managing style, one way to communicate with one person is only going to be good for them. Someone else takes direction and, comprehends things and learns a completely different way. Stephen: Yeah. Tanner: That was an interesting learning experience too. Which I, which I learned on the cruise ships actually, as a band leader. you can't just lead people one way overall. it's very interesting. Stephen: So with your staff, are you primarily the person that's in charge of deciding the acts that are going to be on the calendar or are you delegating that out? Yeah. Tanner: I've added one, person, Nate Walker. Shout out. He's, been saving my life. He gives me, he also knows everything else about the venue. He gives me a chance to go home. I was just home for a week. [00:25:00] He ran the place along with everyone else. He is so valuable to me and to Green Room because he is quite a bit younger than me and is in a younger generation of musicians that are that are coming up and Very busy and very good and have a following a lot of these bands are in college or getting out of college right now So they they built up a following at the house shows and Como and and all the and the other all ages venues He has helped me a lot will help Green Room just become known to so many more people. and that's kind of our thing. I'm, I'm sort of aiming I'm just trying to capture the older bands that bring the older clientele, and, and he's working on the younger. and it's, so far it's been a lot of fun working out. Stephen: Yeah. So I know that you say you're open six nights a week, but how many bands generally are playing there every week? Cause it, you know, obviously there's multiple bands on a. Tanner: I think average is about three bands a night. There's some nights where it's five. There's some nights where it's one. Stephen: [00:26:00] yes. So on average, you've got three bands playing a night. yeah, makes sense. Tanner: yeah, my goal is to fill time typically from 8 to midnight Stephen: Mm hmm. Tanner: Just to entertain people keep them in the space for longer buying drinks Stephen: You guys doing private parties too? Tanner: Totally. We got a wedding coming up in February. It'll be our first company parties fundraisers. We'll do that Stephen: Yeah, sure. What do you think that the Green Room has to offer that's a little bit different that maybe from other venues? What differentiates the Green Room in terms of the experience for live music? Tanner: mean, it's it's one of them Most attractive like you will get so many if you hire if you're a band and you hire a photographer You will get your next album cover shot at green room. It just looks great. The lights work the haze in the air. It's awesome We have a full kitchen. We have a full bar. So it's a little more of a restaurant bar that has music there's a lot of great music venues in town that just have, they are a music venue and they have a small bar, with, with limited [00:27:00] options, but we kinda, we have sort of everything. We have great parking options. There's a 24 hour McDonald's across the street. You can't ask for anything more. Stephen: Oh, I might be remembering this wrong, so please correct me if I am, but do you guys, you guys sort of incorporate some video into, you have some screens and stuff like that up, right? Yeah. Tanner: that I, accumulated from COVID having this video production and live streaming, I still have. And I wired it into the space, to do live streaming, but on a, on any given night, all of the TVs in the space have a live feed of the stage. And there's, there's a bunch of little nooks and crannies and, and lounges Stephen: love about that space. Tanner: you, there's a chance there's, there's, yeah, there's like a 50 person fireplace chandelier couch lounge removed from the stage where you can go have a conversation at this level of volume, but still see the show and, and hear it. There's [00:28:00] speakers in the ceiling, that element is fun. It's cool. Stephen: Yeah. Are you, are you recording any of it? Or is it always live stream? Tanner: it's, it's rarely both just because it's that, much more effort and energy to do. I do offer both options as a paid add on, I would love to do it every night, and I could do it every night, but, my time is valuable and I know that's a valuable thing for bands to have. So I just, I added Stephen: What does it cost if you Tanner: I think 150 for, for just recording of video and audio. We can do multi track, which if it's ticket sales I'll take 150 off of ticket sales Stephen: Sure. Sure. Tanner: that is so reasonable if you want to live. I think so. But, a lot of times it is cheaper than that to have a friend with an iPhone just record the show. And that's totally Stephen: Yeah. Tanner: but yeah, we have a, we have a two camera setup. In fact, are these Sony's? Yeah, I have, I have one Sony and one Stephen: Nice. That's very cool. How often do bands take that up? Tanner: It's becoming [00:29:00] more frequent, but right around once a month. Stephen: Oh, okay. That's less frequent than I would have anticipated for that cost. I mean, it's, considering how much content you need as a band, like having a live show, like recorded well, Tanner: Yeah. Stephen: better than an iPhone. I would, you know, for any bands that are on the calendar, I would 150 bucks, man, obviously you gotta, you gotta do some post work on that. You're going to have to mix and, edit a little bit, but 150 bucks. I think that's worth it in any case. I want to talk. I want to pivot the conversation a little bit towards ticket prices. Cause I know this is sort of a hot take, But let's get into the logistics of this again. This episode is about sort of the, the stance from a venue because listen, if we want a healthy live scene as a community, like you need bands and you need venues and both of them have to be doing well enough, right? And ticket prices are a part of that. There's two sides to this equation, right? Venues making money and bands making money. And Raising ticket prices is good for both of those sides. It's just, you get the consumer, [00:30:00] right? The audience that might not be so happy about that. How do you set ticket prices? Tanner: right now, it's very, rudimentary. I look at the show, look at the lineup, and just think about what I'd be willing to pay to go to the show. because a lot of people that are going are just like me. They're just 20 somethings that want to see some live music, or support their friends. but I do consider, you know, how much a band could potentially get paid. Any expenses that we need, for the house, you know, audio tech, security, box office, different, licensing fees. I do consider that and that should be considered, if it's a certain variables that could change is, is what day of the week it is. If this is a touring band, how far are they driving? Where are they staying? What are their expenses? Also, what shows have they done? If they're on tour, what was their last show? Where was it, and how much were those tickets? You know, you can Stephen: Just some market research. Yeah. Tanner: you know, we try to at least pay bans a livable wage, just like any other employee. we just try [00:31:00] to roll with it and, make something that is mutually beneficial as much as possible. Some venue owners may look at me and be like, I'm dumb, but like I give, I consider all of ticket sales to be for the artists. there's a percentage that does come back to me, but like, I'm not building my business around ticket sales. Stephen: You're thinking more of bar sales and food sales. Tanner: our sales and food sales again, we're, we're, we're new. And I've gotten a lot of advice, before opening of how to make a venue a place that you want to play. And I'm trying to be competitive. So not only a great place, but a place that can pay bands well. Stephen: Sure. Sure. Tanner: As long as I can afford it Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. How much. Do you vary prices from show to show? Does that Tanner: Totally depends on the band, but I I I mean, it's really the band's choice. Stephen: Is it a conversation that you have with every Okay, yeah. Tanner: I think it should be Bands should know how much their audience wants to pay and what's too much hmm. There's been bands that We'll ask a high number and I'll be like, really, you [00:32:00] know, like maybe tell me more about that. Why do you want, why do you want this? Is you just want money? Is that really all it is? And other bands will, not ask for anything with the thought of, Hey, let's get more people. Let's make it a really low price, that makes sense, but also there's a little bit of psychology in there if it's a little too low, maybe there's people see that what's the value of going, Stephen: Well, that was kind of my follow up question is how much and it's probably I don't know if you have like data you know, it's probably just a gut feeling on this but You know, okay a 10 ticket a 15 ticket 25 ticket how much do you think that really affects the turnout? Tanner: I think it affects it a lot. I think it, it, it does. but again, what's the crowd who's coming out Stephen: Okay, let's say local ban. Tanner: local band. I wouldn't go above 20. Stephen: So but my point being is if you set it at 15 or you set it at 10 Tanner: Yep. Stephen: You think it still makes a big difference? Okay. Tanner: In that conversation? No. I don't think it makes a big difference.[00:33:00] one time we sold like 200 tickets, for 38 a piece. And we made a lot of money at the door. and I was, I was nervous about that, that ticket price leading into it. Cause obviously the band was great and it, and I probably would've paid that much money, but I didn't think we were going to get a lot of people. just cause right on the surface, I didn't know who the band was. I didn't think anyone else would. And just seems like a lot, but people showed up. And it was a great example of like, okay, ticket prices really don't need to matter as much as you think they do, Stephen: Yeah. It makes sense that you have to have a conversation with that band and what they are confident that they can pull and, what they can sell essentially. Yeah. all right. We've kind of gone over the, the logistics of, the venue. I want to dig into a little bit of like, what I would just call general show etiquette. for bands, because I think that might be helpful for people to hear, especially if they, if they're looking to play your club for the first time, or maybe they've done a little bit, it might just be a good reminder, like, you know, you work day in and day out with the live music scene, local bands, [00:34:00] what's a good Start to finish process for you. Like, what do you want to see in terms of, and I'm talking from the beginning we'll skip past how to book you. Cause we, we have another episode on that, that I'm sure is fairly similar with Nick Elstad. You can go back to episode, I think it's 11 and check out some of his tips, but. Tanner: great band, great band, Sleeping absolutely a great band. So let's say they, they've booked with you. What is the right way to communicate with you about getting the show organized all the way through showing up, soundcheck, performance, all of that. Yeah, as Nick said, a lot of people in my position are very busy. So it helps to follow up. If you want information, just send us an email. I don't take it personal if you send me three emails. Cause sometimes I forget, but check in ahead of time. when are we showing up? What time is load and what time is soundcheck? we will tell you please show up on time. that is one bit that I, would love to stress my. Audio [00:35:00] techs they work very hard and we want the show to sound and just be as good as possible. so like just showing up on time, being down to sound check, being picky. we want you to be picky as a musician. Ask for what you want. Just like when you're here in the studio, ask for what you want in your monitor. ask all the questions,but sound checks, you know, like just show up on time, be willing to be there. Stephen: Give yourself enough time to find parking, to figure out the load in, all of that stuff. Tanner: Yeah, and then just, you know, hanging out, putting your heart into the show, hanging out in the green room, meeting people. I find that when you are on stage and you thank the fans and you thank venue, though we don't necessarily need it,if you're grateful to be on the stage, people connect with that and they're happy to support you. and, you know. Stickin around to the end is always nice, especially if there's multiple bands, especially if you book the show. that is appreciated. It's surprising how many times a show will happen, and [00:36:00] the band, or the person that I'm paying at the end of the night, if there's a three band bill, I'm gonna probably pay one person and they'll Venmo everyone or whatever. It's surprising how many times they just leave without getting paid. Stephen: That's Tanner: And I get a text the next morning and they want me to like meet at the coffee shop with a check. And I'm like, okay, sure. I'm not quite there yet where I kind of like get sassy. I don't, I won't get sassy. But you know, that's pretty much it. Stephen: once it's booked and there's a lineup set and that sort of thing, do you ask for, you know, stage plot or any of that kind of information before the show starts? Tanner: stage plot. input list is great. photos, promo. That's another thing. Stephen: Yeah. Let's get into that side of it. Promo. Tanner: if I book you and you do not post on Social media and no one comes to your show. I will never book you again That's a little much but it's like I am paying for I think every show we're doing some bit of paid promo But I'm posting at least twice for you. We have no foot traffic in Uptown [00:37:00] green room has no foot traffic So the people that come in to keep the venue open are because of you the band It's tough to, have a show and, you know, we're putting pretty much equal amount of effort into all these shows to have Bans just not push promo, whatever it is, even if it's just a post on your story with a, with a Stephen: Yeah. And it's the, it's your end of the bargain. Like you've got to do something to Tanner: it's, it's tough. Social media is, is not my favorite thing in the world. I think a lot of people feel the same way. It is a necessary evil, or it's a necessary part of this world. Playing music for a reason, whether it's you just love it, you want people to hear your music, you know, you see it as a business, the promo side is, is huge, and a venue can only do so much. Yeah, we have X amount of followers, or you have X, but like, we gotta do this together, we gotta show people, it's a great night coming up, it's a great event, gonna make people excited. We have to be Stephen: Yes, absolutely. What in your mind from a business [00:38:00] sense, and you know, I don't want anybody to be taking this personal because the idea of this is for people to understand like how this ecosystem works. What in your mind is a success in terms of numbers when you book a night it can be on the low end in terms of like minimum, right? what's the cutoff point where you go, that's just too low? Tanner: right now the biggest thing keeping us rocking is, is sales at the bar, liquor sales, food sales. it can depend because some people will come to a show and they'll be older and they'll have more money and they'll, either drink more or just, just spend more on, drinks. with that clientele, you don't need as many people in the room. If you have an 18 plus show. You could still get 150 people in the room, and we will not even pay for labor through drinks at the bar. so, the number is a little tough, but,That being said, if 150 people come in and they all bought tickets, that's at least paying the band, which is good. and I [00:39:00] still consider that successful. When I see people, musicians on stage, feeling good about themselves, feeling good about the performance, that is almost equally as important as having a, a busy night. almost. I don't want to say, I honestly don't want to say a number because if people hear this like, oh well then all I got to do is Stephen: Right. Okay yeah, yeah let's not then. Tanner: but that is, is what I aim for, you know, who's coming to the show, what day of the week is it, what's an average Wednesday for me, that's kind of what I'm Stephen: Too many variables to like set a number. Yeah, that makes sense. But it's something that, if you book any venue and this isn't just a green room thing, this is going to be any venue. You need to know what's expected of you, Tanner: Man, some venues can get wild. Just like with their, with their requirements. Like, I just played a show in Seattle and, and it was a Wednesday night, and I was talking to the venue manager, and he was like, Yeah, we, we just take a thousand dollars off the top, and then the bands get whatever's left. And that's for [00:40:00] expenses they probably assume it's maybe going to be a slower night at the bar, so they need to take some money from ticket sales to help pay for things. a thousand bucks is like a lot of money for a Wednesday night. Thankfully, it was like a welcome home show. There are a lot of kids. They brought the family. It was a lot of people showed up, so we made a decent amount of money. But, there's others where it's like, oh, you got to bring in, 60 people at least. after 60 people buy a ticket, then you get 80 percent of ticket sales after that. Stephen: Right. Yeah. They're setting minimums that they need to make for sure. Tanner: that they need to make, which is, which is, you know, got to do what you got to do. I definitely try to make it as simple as possible. we typically always just give a percentage of the door. yeah, just things to think about. I know that, It's all going to be a risk at the end of the day. Whether current social events, another show in the city, anything could happen. on paper, it could be a awesome show. It could be a sellout, but the day of 40 percent of those people show up. so [00:41:00] as long as you, the band put the effort in to make it the best show possible, that's really what I care about. Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. That there's mutual respect for the event and everybody's taking it seriously and doing their parts. How often do you find, like, set times being an issue? Tanner: I push things back all the time. I, that's, I think that's kind of. My thing, it's Green Room's thing, I don't know. rarely are set times an Stephen: Okay. Some people are strict about it. Tanner: Some people are. And, of course, if you got another thing, we're starting to do a lot more, double headers in a day, so, unfortunately, the early show, I'm gonna be way more strict, and the later show, again, my mentality is I want people to be in the space for longer. For as long as possible. So, hey, why don't we Push an extra 15 minutes. People are still coming in the door. Come on. That's truly what I do pretty lax on Stephen: Yeah. I think it's just a matter of, again, the expectations and knowing what what's expected of you as the [00:42:00] band and what the venue needs and working together to just put on the best show possible. I mean, you set up the venue to be an excellent place for people to play and to watch music. I mean, the sound is good. The cameras are good. The lighting's good. All of it's there. So, you know, if pushing it back means getting more people in the door and that's part of the deal. Tanner: Gotta do. Gotta do what you Stephen: Yeah. There is one other thing I wanted to sort of ask you about, which is, as a guy who sees a lot of live music, more than the average person, what in your mind stands out let me figure out a way to ask this because there's obvious answers to the question, which is the question being what makes a show actually good. and obviously, you know, lots of people, high energy performance, that sort of thing. But what I'm trying to get at is you start to see how redundant shows can be in terms of yep. They're doing the exact same thing that everybody does. Are there things that stand out in your [00:43:00] mind? are there things that you would like to say, You know, we don't need that. Like, this is a mark of amateur versus pro. Things like that. As being somebody that actually sees a lot of live music. Tanner: we sort of talked about this on the phone and I couldn't answer it And I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do it again but Making us, the audience, feel that this show is one of a kind, is special, is important as a musician you will play so many shows. And some venues are a little less exciting to play than others. Some gigs are a little less exciting to play than others. And it's easy to just play your same old set and,have the same banter. Banter is great, but like, there's bands that have no banter, that just play the show. And like, you don't look like you're having fun. Stephen: Mm Tanner: Coming off like you want to be there is really important to anyone. Not just to me, kind of going back to the last thing we talked about, just enjoying it, making it special, making it a one of a kind thing, is the first thing that comes to my mind. When you [00:44:00] ask that question, stage dives are cool. The normal antics. We love it. I'm fine with it. other than that, there's really nothing that's. There's some like annoying things, but I also people are people and maybe they grew up watching some Diva of a performer and they kind of want to emulate them and that's that's your bit. That's cool. Whatever There's really not much else that sort of bugs us in a sense where we try not to be too picky or too Stephen: Opinionated on like, yeah Yeah, Yeah, it's really just like, do you want to be here? Cause there's, there's some bands that again, don't put the effort in for promo. Don't act like they want to be there. don't say thank you even off stage. and that is noticed Sure. Yeah, well, it makes sense, right? There's such a wide variety of styles, wide variety of things that people like something that you might be like, eh, that's not for me works. They got a crowd there. Right. But. what is universal is the desire and just [00:45:00] showing up and being a professional in your way. Maybe that means being stage diving. Maybe that means just having a heartfelt connection in a quiet, intimate setting. Like it could be both sides of it, but, being professional means taking it seriously, like acting like it doesn't matter and that you don't care any of that. Like, uh, by, turnout. yeah, You know, I sometimes feel bad on a night where this band put in so much effort promo. High hopes, low turnout. and honestly, nine times out of ten, those bands, I am always impressed because they play a great show. They have seemingly the same energy that they would if there were 400 people in the room. Tanner: and it is cool to see. but being affected by that is hard not to be. Stephen: That's a part of coming up, no matter what that's going to happen to you at some point and it might, it might be something out of your control that weather was [00:46:00] terrible that night or, you know, anything. but that's what being professional is. You still show up and you still put on your part. And for those that did make it there, make it worth it to them. Tanner: They still paid. They still paid to get in. Stephen: Yeah, absolutely. do you see things going in the next five, 10 years? Like what are you working on next for the, for the venue? Tanner: Updating things. Just, you know, I'll add showers in a laundry situation. but I would just love it to be a mainstay in the scene. I would really like it to be a spot for the neighborhood to want to go, before and after shows, neighborhood bar, Stephen: Yeah. Tanner: and just kind of, you know, continually try to be a space for bands, all kinds of bands, all kinds of art forms. we're dabbling into comedy a little more. I'm down to do dance. All the stuff, just a space that people think of right away when they think of, where do I want to do a show? and who knows, maybe, another venue might be opening up in the next year. I [00:47:00] can't say, I don't know. Stephen: Cool. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk about the green room, talk about your past. I think it's a special space. I want to see it succeed and keep going and congrats to one year coming up here. Tanner: Yeah. Stephen: all that's really cool. And, you know, the shows that I've been to have been great. The bands that are going through there are great. I think you're doing a lot of things, right. But it needs support. People got to keep showing up and keep booking it and, support the venues you'd love to be at. Ooh, that's one of my last questions. If it's not the green room, where do you love to play as a band? Tanner: I'd love to play. I, I love 331 Stephen: Ooh. Tanner: Always a great time. You can always count if it's on weekend. I've actually never played a show where it's, where it's low turnout, but like something magical about that space. I think it's cause there's no cover and it's a dive, little stage, get on that stage. You're sound checking. No one's in the [00:48:00] room. You're like tuning your drums and you look up, you should have started like 10 minutes, five minutes ago. And there's just a sea of people waiting to see you play. Coolest thing. ice house, the entry fine line turf club. What's the one in St. Paul, Amsterdam. Great rooms. Stephen: All great. Yeah, Tanner: All great rooms. White Squirrel. Come Stephen: know, I haven't been there. That's one I haven't been It's Tanner: a, it's a great spot. all great venues, all inspiration to me. And, uh,yeah, I love the Minnesota music scene. Stephen: Well, if people want to get in contact with you personally or, or the green room, where would you send people? Tanner: Just to our Instagram or the website, you can, you can DM the Instagram that goes right to my pocket. you can send an email. you can find that on our website, but the email is info at greenroommn. com. Stephen: And what's the Instagram handle? Tanner: Instagram handle is, at greenroommpls greenroommpls Stephen: drop those links in the show notes [00:49:00] anything else that was mentioned in the show, we'll do that as well. If there's. A tip that you want to leave people, any last words, any, any thoughts about, their next live show or just in general being a band navigating the scene. Tanner: Well, for the audience, if you're ever considering going out to a show and you're like, I don't know, should I do it? Just do it. Cause,many people appreciate it. and for bands, Just keep being awesome. Come up with some crazy stunt that makes you different. Your music is great, but also your stage presence is important. So, how do you stand out? That's a question. Stephen: My tip would be utilize that 150, that cheap extra add on and watch your live show and actually decide, even if you don't release it to people. Watch it. Can you watch it all the way through? And do you find it entertaining? Because if you don't, work on ways to make it more Tanner: Can you watch it all the way through is, I've never been able to watch my own [00:50:00] performance all the way through. It's not easy Stephen: No, it's not. But it's such a great place to start if you want to try to improve your stage presence. Tanner: Correct. Stephen: Tanner, thank you so much for this conversation. I appreciate you. And I'll see you at the next show. Tanner: Absolutely.