Ep. 16: Creating Content That Actually Works with Taylor Lewin of Underscore Audio

[00:00:00] Stephen: Welcome to secrets from the scene on today's episode. I have my friend Taylor Lewin. Taylor Lewin is an Emmy award winning composer and sound editor. His work can be heard on local national and online TV networks and has been shared by publications around the world with a background as an in studio audio engineer and music producer. He has worked with a variety of artists both locally and nationally signed and independent. Taylor also has a distinct passion for sound design and post production audio for video. He owns underscore [00:01:00] audio which serves independent filmmakers and international brands alike by sound designing and polishing their audio for commercial release. And there's definitely a lot more that Taylor does and knows that I can't wait to dig into. So please welcome Taylor. Taylor: Thank you so much for having me. Stephen: Thanks for being here man. I appreciate your time. Taylor: time. Yeah this is fun. I know we've already started talking. Stephen: I want people to know more about you than just that bio because I know more and it's very impressive. So give the pitch. Taylor: Alright pitch like do we want to go like way back to how I got into music and everything? Stephen: No I want to hear like I want you to brag a little bit on yourself right now. Taylor: Oh so like my elevator Stephen: I want the elevator pitch Taylor: So I've pivoted now to doing more audio for video things like the bio set so a lot of it is sound design for corporate type things or films or I focus more on the technical side of things so my elevator pitch now is for like my company we've worked with over twenty Fortune 500 companies we've worked with dozens of professional [00:02:00] sports teams and organizations and worked on content for major events like the Stanley Cup and the World Cup which I was super pumped about because that's like the biggest event in the Stephen: Yeah I think it literally is right? Yeah. Taylor: billions of people watch. So that was like pretty surreal when that happened. But you know sometimes I say it a little bit more smoothly. But Stephen: Heh heh heh. Taylor: when I'm like okay I guess I have to brag. That's usually what I say. Stephen: it's super impressive. There's no reason not to think that ultimately. I mean those are huge huge pieces of content which is why I'm excited to get your opinion today and your input on what makes good content and why it's important. Taylor: don't be boring. Stephen: Don't be boring. Why your content sucks. Maybe that'll be the title for today's episode but in any case let people know a little bit about you now take it back to where it You know we were both audio engineers. I think when we first met Taylor: Yeah I think. Yeah we were both like recording bands trying to make cool stuff. I mean we're still doing that but yeah. so for me I started really young in music. I started the Suzuki [00:03:00] method and like at age four which is think it's based in Japan. So a lot of like videos of little kids playing a bunch of like violins or piano that's the same program I started out with. And I just learned how to watch my teacher's fingers and then listen to the song. And it was really a ear training program. So that's kind of like where I started out. And then in like middle school I kept doing music but in middle school I was put into a multimedia course where I learned like some video editing stuff and Yeah some other recording things like that and then kind of was involved in like all ages venues and church music throughout growing up and then did school band then taught myself like drums and guitar in high school because I had that base of piano then decided I wanted to do it full time I wanted to do it as a career it's probably because MTV Cribs but that's like the fun thing I blame for it. Hey they get to make cool things hang out with cool people and have cool stuff. I'm like I think that's kind of what I want. so that's exactly how it worked out. Not at [00:04:00] all. But Yeah so that's like really early Genesis was very much like ear training or like already getting into all the different facets around audio and music all the different kind of like avenues. And then while I was still in high school I got an audio degree at a tech school for just like recording and I And then I transferred that into a music business degree where I always say it was half music half business and half both just cause math and from there like the business stuff really stuck out to me and the marketing. And there was also a big music program there. Stephen: Where is this at? Taylor: this is a small school called North central in Minneapolis. through my time there. I was like there's a ton of people who want to do music. how can I just help them? How can I like hang out with my friends and make music? and so I really gravitated towards well also monetization but I gravitated towards the technical side pretty quickly. And so I had bands I was in bands did the performance thing. But liked either being on stage or in the booth. Like I don't know there's just like something with my introvert brain. I really liked [00:05:00] like having that kind of separation. And I could kind of think I could tell stories or hear stories. impact the whole experience of the art or the music or the story. And where are we at in the story right? Stephen: College. Taylor: College yes. So because I had already done some audio stuff before I got to the four year school I started running sound at some venues and some churches to just get reps in and then connected with a studio called Humans Win the guy there was awesome Lance and I started interning there and then as I was kind of trying to pick up gigs in the cities one of the bands I was playing in was recording I was too busy to kind of help them out and so they found this studio and I was able to make one of the sessions but I was like too busy working and trying to pay for school and all that as we know. but I clicked with the studio guy really well and then I sent him a Facebook message. And like a few months later he's like Hey you still interested? And so I was like it was one of those messages where I was like Hey I'll take out the trash. I just want to be around. Like let me know how I can help. And then what [00:06:00] was nice is the band that I was in I had already also recorded. So he knew I knew what was going on and there was sort of proof. but then him and I became really good friends. And I realized like we needed more clients. to support both of us and so from there I was like okay how do we how do we get more clients? How do we help our clients do better? you know cause it's like growing a business is like you need more clients or you need to do more with your current clients. and so kind of went down that rabbit hole and it was right around all the time I was doing my marketing classes. started interning at Humans Win for a while then I was like I really want to do this full time but I had finished college I was working some part time jobs did like Starbucks for like six months and I was like I don't want to do this and so what I did was I would always take the opening shifts where I'd get all the free coffee. then I would be off by like 9 or 10 and just like super caffeined up and then email people like the rest of the Stephen: That's such a good strategy. Taylor: And then it took like six months of that. after like [00:07:00] three weeks of getting enough clients at the studio for myself like match or exceed what I was making at Starbucks I quit and just like dove in. Stephen: Was that mostly like cold emailing people? Taylor: It was a lot of cold emailing but I was also trying to go to shows meet people. so like I had something to offer I wasn't just trying to like Hey look at me can I help? I was trying to be like Hey I think you're cool. Like let's just connect sometimes just connecting to make friends. Cause I didn't know anybody in the cities. at that time and so a lot of it was just trying to make friends like being like Hey I like music too. Let's talk. Let's develop a relationship. Also I work at a studio. would love to help you out when you're ready. and then from there kind of using some of that network and jumping off the network of the studio. just kind of created a thing that happened and kept just going hard with that like kind of hustle mentality back in the 2010s and eventually just made records for a living and i think when we met it was probably the year where i was like still like meeting a lot of Stephen: That could be yeah. Taylor: yeah and it was really Stephen: So how long were [00:08:00] you were you at Humans Win? Taylor: I think six years? 2010 to 2018? Maybe 2012 to 2018. Stephen: While you were there was that your main thing or were you still sort of playing around in other audio areas? Because that's something we're going to get to in that you've kind of gone through a lot of different things. You've done live sound you've done the in studio sound you've done stuff on sets and now you're doing post for commercials and that sort of thing. were you dabbling in all those other areas or was this like focused in on doing studio work? Taylor: that period was very focused on doing studio work but I still was doing some live sound gigs. Just for the extra income for you know you have to kind of do everything to pay the bills. but the main focus and the studio became my primary source of income pretty fast. once I had built up that like runway. Stephen: did video start becoming a part of your career path? Taylor: Ooh I think 2015. So just a couple years into the studio with all of my marketing classes I realized like Hey social media was getting big. I had a couple of friends were like [00:09:00] let's try to like figure out how to make people like us on this social media thing. And then before I even started recording bands like regularly at the studio I was like how do I get them? Like. How do I get them better publicity? one of the ways like a lot of bands struggle with like not having good photos or whatever. I was like well we're in the studio like let's get good photos. And so one of my silent goals was to be like okay how do I take good enough pictures that they will? Want to use them as their profile picture because it's like if they're in their profile picture. Hey I don't have to ask and everybody's gonna be like where is that cool photo from? Who took it? Like that's the natural conversation. And that was when it was like everything back then. So kind of through that. But then my buddy Chris was also kind of doing both video and audio. And so once he was like Hey I have some friends they need some video. Can you like hold the camera and help me? I was like Yeah awesome. He's like these are the settings you use whatever. It's like great. And then started kind of picking up video from there. like I had known enough from like that way back class in middle school but this was the first time I thought about like ISO shutter speed autofocus manual [00:10:00] focusthose basics. so recorded some shows but then I was like Hey this is great for the studio. So I'd borrow his camera and it very quickly became a thing I would offer at the studio. sometimes it was just like we have the studio already. We're recording. Once we record it let's just throw up a camera get something to put out on social media. covers were pretty big. And so there's a couple of people I worked with. At the time and those videos did really well Jay now it goes by on Dara he was like J smart at the time. So one of those videos got like close to a hundred thousand plays helped him get some good recognition around town. eventually just through different people we ended up doing a music video with Lissie who she was on Sony for a while. And that music video premiered on a billboard. And so it was like wild. It was like oh! of the two music videos like serious music videos I made one of them premiered on Billboard which I think is hilarious. Stephen: that's awesome. What do you think helped to get it that far along? Taylor: she had a good team. And good manager. She she was really cool but she'd been around the business so they had the press in place and it landed there. And then later on we did another [00:11:00] music video with he's on Verve Records I believe now and so his team had set up but the video kind of went viral like Chris Hemsworth shared it so it has a couple million views now. it was like around this time of year as well where he's like Hey I have this idea. Can we like record it? I was like sure let's just make it happen. and so I don't think I was really there for it but like my buddy Connor was like Hey can you record this? Like then we can figure it out. Yeah he did all the hard work on that one but it was fun to be like Oh yeah. Stephen: That's cool. So you start dabbling you start offering this as part of the audio services. Essentially you see some success. imagine you start going well let's follow this more. At what point did you start doing more of the like onset? We're going to be filming commercials. We're doing indie movies that kind of audio. Cause that's a different world from the studio in a lot of ways. Taylor: Yeah. So that was something I did in like the tech school course. I didn't even realize it was a job. And like so there was project where we had to like replace all the sounds in a commercial or a movie scene. And I remember I chose [00:12:00] Batman Begins and it was just a bunch of looping fight sounds. I was like oh this is fun I could do this. but never about it. Just went the music route recording bands and doing live music. cause like that's kind of what I wanted to do anyways. then when I was working like a a valet job downtown I happened to work with a bunch of kids who were going to school for like filmmaking. And so I was like Hey I know audio. they had like their senior films. I was like Hey can I work on those? And so it was really like at the same time I was trying to like make records that I started working with them and they all stayed in the business too and so we kept working together more and I met people through them but for a while it was just like nah I'm focused on the studio I wanna do the artist thing. one of the projects early on I did was they wanted me to compose and then I also was like I need to make this sound better too. It's like I'll do the music but I also want to make this whole thing sound better. And I remembered what I had learned in that course. And so I like figured out AAFs and all this post audio stuff. it was like a it was a little series it went to like KSTP and aired on TV for a little bit and then [00:13:00] we put it onto YouTube it went viral then the series went to some awards we won an Emmy for that so that was like my first Emmy I didn't even realize it for a while and then I started being like wait This is cool. I like this Then I realized Brands have a lot better budgets typically and there's a level of monotony with the post audio side of things And so I realized it didn't bother me like I was like oh I can do this like we've all done the vocal tuning and all that like that I feel it's way harder than what I do now so it was at the same time honestly like I did music and I did that but I didn't realize like Oh I could do more of this until like we're at the point in the studio where we're starting to get into sync licensing trying to get like onto TV shows you know some of the content stuff was really working we're trying to do some of that for the studio and then for our artist friends just so we could capture more attention and like I really like the sustainable business where I'm like I love that we get to collaborate but I also want us all to make money together which became more difficult with music as like the monetization structures [00:14:00] changed but then it was like Brand became a big deal and then social media became a big deal. it's like how do we monetize this? How do we like create a career that can pay my bills can like support a family? You can like hit all of these things that like 45 year old me will want. Stephen: So that naturally started to lead to you starting your own company Underscore Audio. What year did that begin technically? Taylor: That started in 2018. We were thinking about expanding but the goal was kind of to go like the sync world and kind of almost like close to the public just work on our own music and go towards the video like audio for video side whether it's music or And so we closed down the studio. My buddy moved to LA kind of focused on the music thing. And then I stayed in town and was like already starting to do some boom audio on set with those guys that I had like met in college. And and it started to pick up really fast. It was the same skills. It felt like easier and I got to hang out with cool people all day. so I started out by just like I'm like I need to meet [00:15:00] people. So I just was the boom guy got a bunch of gigs that way. I worked with some big brands around town on some really fun shoots. And then I was like Hey I can polish this too. Like I know pro tools. I I've done this before with like that series. and so I like figure out how to make sure everything I worked on sounded amazing to me. And then how it translates because like then it was everybody's watching on mobile versus TV versus radio and how to make it sound good everywhere. yeah so like 2018 was when I was like you know what I think I'm just going to really focus on the audio for video side. I was still composing a little bit still like scratching the music itch So then from there I worked on a bunch of ads since then I've worked on like a handful of feature films have a couple coming up which are a whole different beast in themselves I have done a couple other TV shows and TV series locally here and then just a ton of ad work for those big brands Stephen: Mm hmm. love that story and I feel like it's worth kind of summarizing to some extent because what I appreciate about that and about your drive and your personality from where you started up until today is sort of the mindset that it takes to make that [00:16:00] all work. there's a couple of things that I think are worthy of pointing out. One is that constantly you're using the network that's right around you at school the people you meet at work and so on to create new opportunities. And a lot of them have paid off for you in big ways over many many years. While that seems maybe lucky or easy at the same time it takes nurturing. You were you're the type that sat there for weeks and weeks and weeks cold emailing people. And if anybody's ever tried to do cold outreach it's Taylor: painful Stephen: and it's not easy. You know when you hear it in an interview like this you go Oh okay. That yeah that was simple. He just emailed people but. No because you get a lot of rejection which is probably what you skipped over is the amount of people that don't respond and care about what you're offering them. So just the persistence to use your network and expand your network go to shows take all these different opportunities. But the other part of it that I think . Is worth pointing out is you kept trying different things and kept looking at your career also through the lens of how can I help the people [00:17:00] around me and where I think that the parallel for today is that. For artists a lot of that is how can I entertain or connect on a deeper level with the people around me? when you think about it as from like a business standpoint working with brands it's very clear you can say well these brands are trying to sell this product or this service and I need to help them do that. But for artists it's the same thing of these are people that are looking to feel a certain way or connect in a certain way and I need to help them feel these things. You were always conscious of Hey what would help this artist? Can I shoot a music video for him? Can I be the best photographer for them? Just you know on a whim here while they're in the studio to just add value to their lives. it's that sort of angle that sort of thinking that I think has been a huge secret to your success and now having your own company and doing this on a very large level. and I also think that. It's kind of where I want to pivot to go into creating content because it's the same mindset. So [00:18:00] you have a YouTube channel. Tell us a little bit about that. Taylor: Yeah. So I because that like YouTube series that I worked with like early on we got to like go to award shows out in LA and meet a bunch of like other big YouTubers. I was like this is fun. These people are normal people just like doing fun stuff with their friends and packaging it in a creative way so that we want to watch it like it makes our days better. Like when we feel like we're getting to know them. was kind of like Oh yeah this sounds fun. And so as I was like working on like doing some performance videos at the studio just to help like people share their music more for people who didn't want to like go to Spotify. So we just hit play and just watch it happen. I was like you know what? YouTube seems fun. Like the series like was a lot of work but. I think maybe I could do this too. I like ideas. I like hanging out with people. I like having conversations. podcasts are fun. I like this. And so yeah I went down the trail just trying to like do tutorials. At first it was just like answering questions I would get in emails a lot. Because of all those emails I was like oh wait now I have too [00:19:00] many emails. I want to make more music. So I was like oh like I'm answering a lot of the same questions. So let's just make this a video that I can send like to keyword search. And so I did a bunch of like Very like straightforward tutorials like these are common problems I had like with live sound. These are common problems I had with like setting up a guitar like troubleshooting a keyboard. Like we had a studio like a keyboard in the studio where I was always like Oh what's going on with it today? and I just made that content because like this is stuff I wanted the answers to. the YouTube channel became like what are the questions I wanted to know like I wish I would have had answers for when I started out. And so that's very much what it became. It was like I wish that I had these videos when I was starting out. it started out with like tutorials of like common problems I would have in the studio to like what expectations I should have going into a recording session. Like it's a lot of money like when you're starting out to like invest in quality recording. And so like how to optimize for that. Cause at the end of the day like. I want to like make something cool with cool people and like have it do well. So it wasn't like no let's just like [00:20:00] sit in the studio and experiment. It was like no let's make something cool that we can share super fast. that was like the fun part. And then recently I've been interviewing a bunch of friends like who have made it in music and trying to find out like. A how did you monetize? B like what do you feel like was the big thing that what's your secret sauce? Because everybody has a different lane. And then kind of like what they wish they would have known starting out. just like those kind of basic questions where I think we miss like there's always like mix with the masters and like some of these very expert courses. But in reality like those people are so far from the beginning process. A lot of those nuances of just starting out like sometimes it is just sending. Hundreds of emails and like not hearing back from like 98 of them. Stephen: Yeah hearing all the things that are the hard part or the struggles or the little yeah the little details that Often get skipped over when you're at the higher level because you've kind of forgotten about that journey. You're so much further along. This podcast has so many overlaps with the same goals with local artists particularly [00:21:00] and sure there's something about learning from the people that are at the top of the craft right? Or the top of the industry. But there's a lot to be said about learning from somebody that's only one or two steps ahead of you. I feel like there's just right away there. Everything is a lot more tangible of like Oh yes I can do that. That person literally lives in my city and did these things I can do these too. That's a big part of this podcast is just wanting to share the things that have worked and not worked. But one of the subjects we're going to cover a lot in this podcast is content creation. And I think that you're great at making content and plus you're very well qualified to judge what good content is because you're working on very very high end stuff for bigger companies and brands. everybody knows to this day you know that for the most part you have to be on social media making stuff but the big holdup for artists is what do I make? How do I get anybody to care? What makes content even good? There's a lot of decisions that go into this and I [00:22:00] think that's what I want to focus on here for people is put yourself in the shoes of those clients that you've worked with in the past right? but knowing what you know now today where do you begin in terms of setting up and deciding Hey I'm a musician. I make music. Now I need to promote myself online. I want to make some content because there's lots of different types. You can do a YouTube channel you can do a podcast you can do social media clips and more. let's walk through sort of the steps of trying to figure that out a little bit and decipher what makes good content for you as an artist. Taylor: Yes. Okay. I love this so much. and honestly the way I view good content is the same way. I judge a good song. Typically is like a it's relatable like people besides me will like this or it's a experience. I have that people have already resonated with. There's like a nice tight intro. the first lines hook me and then the chorus is something I want to sing over and over again. And there's like an emotional journey. There's a nice story like depending on what kind of music you like. honestly what I have seen do [00:23:00] well with all content as well really viewing it as that like emotional journey of a song. Like how do I connect with somebody who is real? And it's not just like oh I just want more plays. It's like no how do I make more friends? Like how do I be a better friend? And so like that's like a lot of the making content is like it's like podcasts it's like this is a fun conversation of just like two friends hanging out talking like what's worked and what hasn't. And so I think with creating content going in with that attitude of like how can I serve other people Kind of like trying to like offer something or like not to buy But like what is your music really offering people? It's like there's a project I wrote where I was like I couldn't fall asleep for a while I was like I just want to make us an album. I can fall asleep to so I did And I fell asleep to it. And I was like that's great. And then I put it on I was able to license it a little bit. It's like other people liked it for that kind of like boring background thing. It doesn't always have to be shiny and flashy. we can get like really granular like what makes content. Stephen: let's walk through the different things because there are this is a huge topic right? This could be [00:24:00] multiple this could be an entire podcast series. So we'll try to be brief on all these things just to give people stuff to be thinking about but we've already touched on this right now which is a lot of it comes down to first thinking about your audience because everybody's going to have a different style of music which means it's probably a slightly different style of audience. So thinking about what your audience wants to hear you know based on your music maybe if you're if you're singing sad singer songwriter songs you know there are people that are listening to that might be looking for more of an emotional connection. So making those kinds of things think about the type of music the type of person listening to that and then think about the content based on those emotions or that kind of storytelling or whatever your genre is. That's a good place to start. And then I think the second thing is deciding what platform. Because that's going to really change what type of content you're making. Taylor: Definitely. what I love about like choosing a platform too is like sometimes the easiest place to stand out is somewhere where it's not as busy. Stephen: Hmm. Taylor: And so that was [00:25:00] something that worked really well when I first started making content was it was right when like Facebook ads were rolling out. So it was like not relevant anymore but it was like wait Facebook ads are popping up for like now like TikTok is huge. and like the discovery engine but yeah there was a book I read really early on. And it was called behind the glass. I've only ever read the first two chapters but it was thinking about where people are going to be listening to your music or watching your content. Like what is the experience you want them to have or that you're trying to capture? And so it goes into like usually the stuff you like is based on the first concert you've ever been to or you remember going to. And so I realized Oh a lot of my mixes sound like the first concert I ever went to. Like that's what feels good to me. Cause it was just that moment where music became real to me. and then I really liked listening to music in the car. And so I would always like mix like it's the car test like just driving down the road at night like looking at stars listening to new music. I think that was fun. And so for content it is finding like a like when do I look at content? Like we're all unique but we're all the same. And so am I scrolling at 9 PM and I just want something to make me laugh before I fall asleep or am I scrolling at 9 [00:26:00] AM going like I really want to be productive today. What's something that motivates me. and then like from the lens of like what is my slumdog millionaire story? what are all the unique things along my path that give me like a unique qualification to. offer advice or speak about whatever to try to like you know what today I. And I was thinking about you know what it's fall. I had a good memory in the fall. And I just wanted a warm drink and to look at the like the leaves before they're all gone. that's really relatable. And that could be a whole story. That could be that could be a song. That could be a video. and then kind of using that example of like then where would people relate to that most? for me I went to Instagram because that's where I realized a lot of filmmakers were who became my target kind of market and so I was like videographers they're all using Instagram to share their work to connect with others it was also becoming the most popular platform at the time so being strategic of like where are the people that I want to connect with connecting. for listening. [00:27:00] And then how do I add to the conversation or just be supportive? So there was a while where when I was working on like growing my Instagram I would just go and like it was like an hour a day I would just comment like find stuff I really liked and just like leave a nice message not trying to get anything but just like these people are cool they should keep doing it. And just like being that good friend or like trying to like build that community. And instead of like Oh I need them to listen to my stuff I need them like that's hard. And you just kind of like it is a slog. But like sometimes just like making friends are like what's the most valuable thing in the process? Stephen: Relationships are huge. It's a lot of what will make or break your career in the end in the long run. But I want to circle back to one thing that you said that I thought was really interesting which is starting by thinking about how you consume content. Cause sometimes people over complicate things or think they need something maybe that they don't. And what I mean by that is when you start by thinking about how do you consume content more than likely the music that you're making people that like it are a [00:28:00] lot like you. Taylor: Yeah. Stephen: So if you start by thinking about how do you consume things what do you like then you're probably going to be closer to who you're true. Audience really is there are people that I think make the mistake of thinking Oh I need to be on TikTok like my audience is on TikTok. And it's like well are you on TikTok? And if the answer is no then maybe your audience isn't on TikTok. there's exceptions to these things but I do think that that's a great place to start. how do you consume content? What kind of content do you like and try to make stuff like that first? You can always pivot and can always expand but by picking something that you are familiar with you're probably going to do a better job on that platform because you know what You like there and at least you have a stance versus going in to something blind. So I think that that's a great place to start. you also need to spend time on a platform to connect with it enough and know sort of the etiquette which is part of that picking the platform conversation. If you are on YouTube you know what is expected to some [00:29:00] extent of YouTube creators which is different than what is expected of TikTok creators. One a lot of times they're very different lengths right? Or a podcast you know this podcast might be an hour long. That's a completely different style of content than making stuff on TikTok. while you might do things all across the map by doing cut downs and stuff like that depending on what strategy you pick Start with one start with one is your main thing and you can dabble in the others but start somewhere and focus in on that. You picking YouTube which I think is a very great platform for musicians. It's a little bit more long form than social media. what do you think is the most important parts of designing content for YouTube specifically? Taylor: Oh I love this question. so when thinking about YouTube as an artist especially I think there are two different ways that you can think about it. There's like YouTube is the second largest search engine. So it's like you can make stuff that's very searchable. Like what are problems that people are having whether it's like as an artist like me as like somebody [00:30:00] who listens to music like me like problem solving things you can contribute if like maybe you're a good problem solver. And that's like or you like thinking about things a certain way like you can platform that. On YouTube and it's searchable and it's great. And if that's what you like to do that's the place to do it. that's kind of how I started. I was like these are problems I'm having I know other people are having them how do I like package this so people can find it as well? Or I can send it in email. And then there's like the entertainment like the spectacle. you know I like Mr. Beast. those are spectacle or like those huge music videos like YouTube is great for that too Like most a lot of the large channels are music channels with great music videos and those kind of content but then there's also like video podcasts and behind the scenes where You do want a little bit more of that like personality and so maybe that's the story of a song where someone like oh I really like this song like I wonder So like YouTube is a great place for that especially as like your career starts to kick off and you have more of like more people interested in your story and in your art and like what kind of motivates it. [00:31:00] you know there's behind the scenes and there's how to's that I think do really well on YouTube and then there's just like the spectacles I think as an artist it's finding like a which one of those do you enjoy most and like which one can you do forever? Because with creating content I like to think In movies sometimes but the Sandlot it's like when I was growing up Sandlot was a really great movie but it's about all these kids who play backyard baseball and then one of them eventually goes pro but the whole idea is to keep the game going they never kept score they just kept trying to like keep the game going and for having a creative career that is the game the game is to keep it going that's why I keep like trying to evolve was like I like audio I don't want to pivot away from that too much. I like music. I was like Oh I like the way it matches with visuals. I like connecting with people. I like helping people. I like when somebody hears something or watches something and it like changes their mind or it makes them feel amazing. And so in that evolution process of keeping the game going how do I bake that into content that then helps me connect with people who also enjoy the things I enjoy [00:32:00] but then also help in the areas where I've personally struggled with or I've like I've seen friends really struggle with. Like how do I solve the problems for the people I care about most or how do I like elevate the mood of the people I care about most? Then with YouTube it's like a big search engine. And like how do I like play into that with like click click click nails thumbnails and like titles and getting clickable shareable things going. Stephen: I love that. and I want to keep focusing on some sort of tactical things but I think it's worth taking a little bit of a tangent again to talk about mindset because I do think that if you have the right mindset slash strategy in place that might be even more important than anything else in that It's okay to go into something knowing that it's not going to be your best work or it's not perfect yet. You're not going to be Mr. Beast tomorrow. It doesn't work that way. It's more important that you think about Hey This sounds fun to me this will actually help the people I want to try to reach or entertain the people I want to try to reach or [00:33:00] connect emotionally with the people I want to reach. Something along those lines. That it's actually going to get me in front of the people I want to be in front of. Right? and I could keep doing this. I could keep Experimenting with this because I can guarantee if you're just starting off in it it will change whatever you you can come up with some master plan but you're probably going to pivot along the lines of well if I tweak how I do this or structure this or maybe changing platforms maybe you start by being on tick tock where it's more of a discovery platform videos are short It's a little bit more towards the entertainment side of things although there's there's exceptions to all of that and you're doing that you're working but you realize that you want to go deeper and you need more time and you pivot over to a platform like YouTube where you can really let your fans know more about you because people that are on YouTube are watching videos for a longer period of time. That's totally fine. There's nothing wrong with that. The point is is that the reason you'd be able to do that pivot is because you stayed in the game long enough to keep making [00:34:00] content. So I just want to reiterate the importance of thinking about what it is you want to make and making sure that that feels sustainable to you. It feels enjoyable to you because if you go out just. Thinking about it from the other perspective of Oh I'm just going to do what is trending because that's what I have to do or this is who I think my audience is and you're not necessarily correct about that. That stuff is always the stuff that fizzles out. And it's okay if that happens if you realize Oh I made a mistake. Pivot again you know find something or if you realize you're not enjoying what you're doing pivot again. Big reason why I picked the podcast. I get to have friends over to my studio and chat and drink coffee and hang out. there's a million things I need to get better at while I do that. And that could be better. But it was like this morning when we were talking I was you know complaining to you about there's so many difficult pieces and there's I feel like there's still so much that I don't know about how to do this extremely well. We'll get there. You know that's not the point. The point is is to start and make improvements as we go. all right let's get back to the tactical stuff though [00:35:00] because I do want to give people actionable tips. I think one of the first questions is what do you actually need to start making content in terms of the gear? And what do you not need? Taylor: Oh I think if you have a phone like if you're watching this on a smartphone like that's all you Stephen: Yeah. Agreed. phone cameras today are crazy good. Taylor: technology all of it. It's great. Whether you're a songwriter whether you're just trying to do video. I'd recommend video every time because you know even if they're not looking at it they'll hear it. So like that's why like music videos and content and things like that I think are just still so important even though maybe the monetization is less like optimized. but yeah using a phone like making sure it looks pretty. basic framing. also like what are you optimizing for? Do you want it to look more pretty? Or do you want it to sound better? there's like 10 mics you can get now that are like totally fine. You just have to learn how to use them. You could use your your earbuds or whatever. But just starting is the key like I read too much and this is a little bit more theoretical there's a book called So Good They Can't Ignore You and it's kind of based on a Steve Martin quote like Steve Martin has had this really long [00:36:00] career but his whole goal was just to be like how can I be so good that nobody can ignore me this book by Cal Newport who also wrote some like digital minimalism and things of like kind of focusing and deep work is another one as well. it's like how much of this do I need to do to be like reasonably to be good at it? do I need to make 100 videos? do I need to make 1000 videos? Do I need to write 1000 songs? Like I think Phineas Eilish so Billy Eilish's brother who like produces all of her stuff. he has like a thing and his like bedroom is like 10 000 hours the 10 000 hour rule. how much effort do I need to put in to actually be good at this? especially with video and like musicians I think like how many covers do I need to play to feel confident performing on camera? if you do 20 you're probably gonna be a lot better than most people because most people just wait to start and so it's like maybe one Saturday it's like I'm just gonna pull up the tabs record videos of this and even if I'm just watching playback of myself and going Like ooh I look a little funny or oh like I could have played that chord better oh if I like I liked when I was sitting in the light this [00:37:00] way I like looked more pretty or whatever like I felt more confident when I played it like this Like there's so much you can learn that is not Like learning is more important than earning often times. And so by like picking whatever thing you're gonna work on whether that is like how you set up the camera how the lighting is like all those little things and improving at like a 1 percent better every time like that's gonna be the magic of whatever you make. And that's gonna keep the game going. Stephen: Do you suggest having a light right away? Taylor: I find it helpful depending on where you live like if you have like a nice window window light always looks great but it's a mood it's a very certain vibe so maybe like if you're an acoustic musician you might want to just always play when it's sunny like so maybe that's how you capture the moment like it's a sunny afternoon I'm going to have my camera always set up or like a phone stand put it there and then play while the light's on my face and it looks good on my Stephen: Yeah. So if you've got like a stand for your phone a basic light and a 10 microphone you're pretty much set up to be as good of a content creator as anybody really. if you want to go deeper and you [00:38:00] want to do those things or maybe you already have a nice camera because you like to do photography and things like sure get that stuff activated but don't overcomplicate it when you get started. Remember the idea is a lot more important than how it looks. People are totally fine with low quality. Everything as long as the. Mood the content connects. The concept is there. If that's there the quality doesn't matter. In fact some people prefer it to look a little bit more I mean there are big time creators that will go out of their way to make it look lo fi like it's not like they're not trying. So you don't have to worry about quality. I think that's somewhere something that some people will get hung up on audiences will connect with rawness a lot of times. So. So if you like doing high quality you can work to it but don't feel like that's where post number one has to be. Taylor: Yeah we like doing what we're good at. but the only way to get good at something is to suck first. Stephen: a hundred percent. Taylor: So it's like to enjoy the process of just like being that uncomfortable learning like to be that novice again like it's so uncomfortable but like [00:39:00] that is the most tactical thing. It's like just do more of what you hate like like what part of this process do I hate the most that I can just get better at? I don't like tuning my guitar I don't like how I look on camera or I don't like how I sound in a microphone. just do more of it. You're gonna get over that. nobody's gonna think about it more than you. most people are gonna be like oh worst case it's like that's not for me they keep scrolling. Stephen: Yeah yeah exactly. If something's not good no one's going to watch it. They'll just get past it anyway. Taylor: Yeah and then that's like another rep. Like like viewing it as reps I think is like really great. It's like the more free throws you shoot the more you're gonna Stephen: Yes. Yes. the other thing that can really really help with that is do it with a friend. Yeah. Do it with a friend. You can get so in your head when it comes to looking at yourself on camera or hearing yourself through the mic for the first time. Do it with a friend. We here at Helvig Productions we make content for our clients as we go. We'll do long form stuff that's better for YouTube like behind the song behind the lyrics that kind of [00:40:00] stuff. But we also do short social media discovery clips for people. You know sing alongs with chorus things that are trending. But more importantly we just show people how to do it. Not that it's a this big secret of how to do it it's more about the comfort of doing it with somebody else. And I've found time and time again that that's really what people need more than anything is just somebody to say that looks fine. It's not cringey. It might feel cringey to you but it's fine. That's what I see all the time. Do more of that. And just getting somebody. in your inner circle or somebody you trust somebody you're working with to tell you that's cool or to give you honest feedback of I would do that differently. You should maybe not look that way or whatever you know practice it this way so that you can just get a little bit of feedback before it goes out to the world that can make all the difference in getting started. Just getting past that first initial resistance. Taylor: Yes. But also still posting it anyways. If I can be a little contrarian.cause I think for me a lot of times I'll kill things before I ever put them out. And then sometimes [00:41:00] when I put them out that's what I needed. like definitely have those creator friends you can make stuff with. But then also there is something magic when it's people you don't know. And like they're truly objective about your art. Like it's scary but when a stranger goes I love this or like even YouTube videos it's like I don't have a lot of views but like some people are like I love this video. this made my day. I'm like yes that's exactly why I made this. It was like I was in that place once and that helped me there's something To me and I like this might be a personality thing but I always found it more fun when strangers connected with my things because I wasn't expecting it. Where like sometimes it is hard to get friends to be honest with you. Stephen: That's true. Taylor: but at the same time like just keep going is the advice that you probably need. Like just keep making things. So finding somebody who's like yeah you can improve next time but like put it out. Like just do Stephen: Yeah. And if you are already making content let's say this is not a problem for you to get started. You're you're doing it but you need to see better results. That's when you need to start asking for [00:42:00] feedback and probably not from your immediate circle if they're all approving it or whatever. Taylor: Right. then that's the magic of like working with a studio or like working with like people who have experience in film and things like they are used to doing this and they're going to make sure you sound as good as possible. but doing it with people who like are around it and know that the game is to do more to keep it going trying to get to that next step whatever that is whether that is just finishing your first song finishing your first video posting your first song posting your first video like there are very granular steps and like there's so many different skills like performing a song is way different than recording a song even though it feels like the same. Sometimes it can be the same but they are really different depending on what genre you're in what kind of content you're making. Okay. And so there are those nuances where finding the right circle to kind of like bring your art into the world with. Because that was one of the things when I was making records I really loved was being that kind of like safe space for people to like try new things. Where like they didn't want the weird look from their brother. Or like yeah their mom was going to say nice [00:43:00] but they kind of wanted to be like wait will people actually listen to this? And so being at the studio I could be like I really like it like it's really cool or like I love all of it except like these words is when I kind of like feel like I'm going to grab my phone having that space where the goal is to make something and make it better but still like Good enough is okay. it doesn't have to be perfect. Oh we were talking earlier and this reminded me of like Any song or piece of content is just capturing a moment. It doesn't have to be perfect. gonna look back on it and cringe most likely anyways. but what's gonna be fun is when you remember when you were making it. who you were with why you were making it the season of life like there's things I made ten years ago that I'm like I can't believe that worked. then there's sometimes a lot of people connect with it. I have a friend and it was one of those clients where I was like trying to help them market. right away. So we did a song and I was like you know what? I think you need to do this Facebook thing. There's some ads. You can buy like 50 000 impressions for like 5. I think you should do it. And they're like cool. And it was a song they had mixed themselves. Like they hadn't even had us like work on it at the studio but it's like it's really good. It's resonating. Like I played it to a couple of friends were [00:44:00] like this one's the best one. We should do this one. And sure enough it like started going viral. And then like the next day like they were on all these Blogs when that was big and then labels were calling them the next day and like there was a lot of other moving parts But it was not like the polished mix It was the mix that captured them at the moment and we've talked about it And it's like the song is great and like the emotion is there and people Want to connect with that emotion and things that was what gave them their break because they were just doing it and committing to the process of putting It out wherever they were at. Stephen: Authenticity and vulnerability are very very powerful. I would say considerably more powerful than presentation and the framing of it. Now those things are often very very important to us creators is the presentation and the framing but don't forget that people can usually see right through that. And we have so much content coming at us every day that sometimes we just don't care anymore you know? So it depends. Depends on your audience. Depends on a lot of things but. There's never a time where those things will not help you you know you might [00:45:00] not want to be vulnerable or things like that depending on again your audience and your message your brand but especially authenticity always always will help you if you can dial into that more the more that you can feel like you're really communicating your true self. Other people will feel that too. Taylor: definitely Enthusiasm and emotion are like The secret sauce I Geek out about decision making sometimes but like every decision whether it's to keep watching to buy to do anything is an emotional decision and so the more you can capture how you feel about whatever you're making and you can put that into your performance or however you're making it Like show it to a stranger on a phone and they start feeling the same thing. that's when you know you have good content. That is when you know you have something that's shareable that people are going to connect with. And if you feel that about it. Awesome! that should be success. there's projects I've made where I was like I know nobody is probably gonna like this but I really enjoyed making it. And that was success for me. And like being okay with that. there's projects where I've done that and I've learned something [00:46:00] and then like three projects down the road it's like that was the secret sauce that made that work for me. Or it was like that's what helped me meet a deadline. That's what helped me like make a new connection. And it was because I took that time to make something for me I was okay with taking that risk because I was like I didn't care what anybody else thought I made it for me and I just trusted that like if it meant this much to me it'll probably mean something similar to somebody else eventually. Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. Well and along those lines actually that made me think of one other thing that's sort of tactical which is if you are Doing something like that where it's just like you know what? I just I just need to make this I guess it depends on the type of content you're making and how you're putting it out there. But I kind of want to use that as a way to pivot towards talking about how you sell something online. And by sell I mean like present it in terms of the title the thumbnail the description whatever it might be. Because. If you do have something that you're like this is just really meaningful to me and I don't know if it's exactly the right content. Well the one thing you should spend time on then is at least making the clickability of it make sense to who you [00:47:00] think might connect with it. important across all content but Especially if you're going to do it that way we were talking about that when you first got in it's an art you know a lot of creators will talk about when they're making content that they'll actually just start with the thumbnail what the image is going to look like and then pick a caption from there and then actually make the content which is crazy to me. I'm definitely not at that stage. But it makes a lot of sense that how clickable something is is ultimately. Now I'm not saying go do clickbait things necessarily but the point is trying to frame something to show people what they're gonna get out of it. how do you think about your titles when you're putting together YouTube stuff? Taylor: Oh I don't think about them enough yet. Most struggles in life just come down to either failure to prepare or failure to follow through. And so for me there's this idea of like the more the thumbnail or like the image can evoke an emotion and a question and then the title can kind of keep that going and then the first [00:48:00] like five seconds of the video or thirty seconds or whatever depending on what kind of content it is the more that can all be unified that is what is gonna hook you in and keep you interested. Like pattern interrupts like. this solves my problem. This is what I want to be entertained by right now. I did a video with my friend Chris where he's a really successful composer as well. And he's gotten like 24 million streams on Spotify things like that. And so I had a very like good clickable title. And the thumbnail like worked. It wasn't the best but it worked. I could see like in the analytics it was like even though the video did really well for my channel It was just like Oh wait I didn't deliver on the promise or like as soon as I mentioned that in the video everybody started clicking off. but then there were some people who like watched the whole way through. And so it's like how do you align like Who's the person who wants to watch this whole thing to be like okay what would they click on? and I'm really picky about the content I consume. So sometimes that's my barometer of like what would make me watch this for 20 minutes? Like what does this need to be called? And then how do I like pre plan that as much as possible? Spotify playlists that's kind of [00:49:00] how I think about titling content. Is like is this a mood? Is this a Stephen: Like an aesthetic or yeah. Taylor: Yeah am I trying to capture a mood of like when somebody wants to watch this? Or am I trying to capture a problem? And so I think with like whether it's entertaining or educating or whatever capturing the emotion that you are going to deliver in your content is the most important thing when picking a title and a thumbnail. I talked to a big YouTuber once and like my buddy was like okay what's the biggest like takeaway? And he's like whatever you do just make it shareable. make it something that when you watch it you want to send it to somebody else. And I was that is so basic but also just like so true. Stephen: makes a ton of sense. Obviously not easy to do. you're a full time creator and you you know you get to work on that all day and thinking about concepts then it's easier. But good to have in the back of your mind in terms of what little change could you make or what a different angle could you make that would make people maybe want to share something? like at the same time all of these things are helpful. I also want to just put a caveat out there that it's okay. Like you don't have to do all these things right. You're not doing them all right I'm not doing them all right and we [00:50:00] both know that we should be. You just keep doing what you can a lot of times we don't necessarily need to be taught we need to be reminded so. This is a lot of us just saying yeah we should do these things you know? and that's okay. more importantly it's that you're trying that you're getting out there that you're looking at your analytics and you're going okay I see room for improvement versus if you are just creating stuff. and not trying to make it better and you're frustrated that there's not a lot of traction or why why am I not getting new fans and my views I'm not going past 30 views. you got to look at your stuff and make changes. You have to keep trying new things. Maybe at that point now that you have been creating you've got the process down. Now you can start looking at those things too. So just depending on where you're at on your journey you can hone into some of these things that we've brought up more. Or less it's okay to skip past some things. but titling is super important put in the title what is in it for them? Is this something they can relate to? Is this something that will fix a problem for them? Is this going to entertain them or is [00:51:00] this going to be a mystery? You know a lot of that's another big thing is opening up a story loop where you click on it because you want to know what's at the end. Just framing your content around that sort of thing. Now not every piece of content needs to do this. You can also just put out things that just you know for whatever reason at all. Some people are into that too. Or it's just more of a daily blog of whatever you're doing that day. Fine. Some people will like that too. Just depends on the platform. Depends on you. Make stuff and keep pivoting. Keep trying to make it better. Taylor: Absolutely. I think that's great advice. Also like tactically A huge thing I see like creators and musicians get hung up on all the time is they're so worried about trying to build an audience they forget what they really want to do and what they really want to make. I think it's so easy to go online and be like I don't have enough followers. I don't have enough plays that you forget why you're trying to start the game in the first place. getting popular and stuff is not fun. At the end of the day like I've met famous people and they're just like not happy about it. [00:52:00] They just want to have their private life. Like I know a guy he's has like dozens of Grammy noms. And he's like I just want to hang out with my kids today. and that's what he wants to do. And like that's he's had all of it. And it's just not what he wants. And so the biggest thing I think creators make is like they get caught up in the trends. They get caught up in like how do I get in front of more people when. The real secret is like how do I get better doing what I really like? Because the longer you can play that game and make that sustainable for yourself the longer you're going to do it. And the tortoise always wins. I love that story. It's just like the slow and steady the consistency makes all the difference when it comes to content music creative careers If you can keep doing it like first before you figure out how to get more likes figure out how you can make a hundred of them how you can make a thousand of them because if it's not easy enough to do it like day after day after day because it will be work and it will be hard like I picked what I'm doing for a career and there's so many days where I'm like I do not want to go to work like that will happen but the more you can enjoy it and the [00:53:00] more you can enjoy that struggle The more you're going to keep doing it. And the more you will succeed because you'll have more chances to iterate. you'll get better at like Oh I'm going to get better at thumbnails today. I'm going to get better. So which means I'm going to get better at. at like taking pictures composition AI art whatever it might be and then all of a sudden more people are hearing your songs because sometimes that creative like wait more people are clicking it because they like my album art. Great. Oh what if I made this like the song title instead of like the chorus lyric? What if I Pick some weird lyric or like Oh that was a weird phrase I said. I keep saying it. What if this was the first word of my song? there's ways to like make people engage that just by trying to work on one thing like over maybe a dozen times. Like what if for these 12 videos I'm just going to work on my thumbnail and just like be fine with my delivery. Okay cool. What if for the next 12 videos I'm going to work on my performance? You're going to get better because you're trying and you're just picking one thing to improve on. Cause if you try to do all of them at once you're going to just paralyze yourself. I have done that so Stephen: Yeah I agree. I agree [00:54:00] entirely. I think that's great advice. And if all else fails go to somebody else to work with them and get their feedback. If you're too in your head about it Pick somebody else. I mean that's a big thing that we see here when artists come in is just simply showing them Hey pull up tick tock pull up cap cut pull up these tools. Here's a ring light. put your phone on there. Start doing it. Go. We just force them to you know do like sing along whatever. And. watching it back with them and just pointing out like that's cool. That looks fine. That can make all the difference if you're stuck getting started or if you're too in your head or getting somebody else that might say you know I think that this kind of content would be cooler for you. You should be doing this. Like you tend to go deep on your conversations. Maybe you should think more longterm. Maybe you should start a podcast or a YouTube channel and and have these. These types of conversations and don't even try to talk having some outside input can make a huge difference. If you feel like that's holding you back Taylor: That makes me think of what do you think is your superpower? Stephen: in terms of [00:55:00] like career music specifically podcasting specifically do you or just anything? Taylor: I like to think of what are my superpowers? especially when I'm creating things like what are the things that I can do well that other people find really hard? Stephen: Hmm. Sure. Sure. Taylor: or the look or like the feel of things. maybe it's a taste thing. or I like thinking about big ideas and then applying them to completely different things. So for me I'm like an ideas guy. And like when I first learned guitar Then all of a sudden like eight of my friends were also playing guitar because I just liked like hey Let's do this together that was just kind of my vibe and that I realized as I got gotten older is like that's one of my superpowers It's like when I'm into something I can find or build a community of people who are also into the same thing Like maybe maybe I'm deluded but right now I'm like that's what I'm believing. That's what I'm like living it like and so it's just like as you create like finding people like that to help hone in on your superpowers. Like some people are great singers and performers [00:56:00] and maybe they're not good songwriters. You don't have to do it all. you can just do covers and you can make a living doing that. Also for me. Video content is something I kind of don't ever want to do for a living. I'm doing it and it's fun and I monetize it great. But like that's one of those distinctions where my kryptonites are like when I have to do things I really care about for money it just ruins it. Like having a creative career is finding that perfect love hate balance of what can I do a thousand times and be okay being of? if you love songwriting and telling stories and like that gives you a lot of joy and that's like where you find a lot of meaning in life. What if instead of doing that full time what if you found a good professional job that you didn't mind that would let you write all your stories like Over the weekends every weekend or you got a month off to just write once a year. Like I think that's way more magic than like Oh I have to like what am I going to write today? I need to get clicks. I needed like sell more products online. I think sometimes minimizing the pressure. Is also a great way to let like [00:57:00] creative juices flow. there's two faucets I like to play with in my life. When I'm creating content do I need to turn up the pressure or do I need to like turn down the pressure? Oh limitations breed creativity is a quote I love. If I only have four tools and I have to like MacGyver like four tools and I need to get out of this room how am I going to do it? I think that's a very good way of like if I need to write a song like what can I do with a guitar maybe a kick sample and a snare sample or what can I do if like I just have a phone and I'm only using my window light like what kind of videos can I make that I would enjoy or like my best friend would enjoy. maybe that person I want to impress would enjoy where is that line of like the minimum viable product to use a really businessy term but then also like what are those things I really love to do that I don't want to ever monetize? I don't ever want to like have to do making videos is one of those things where I'm like I do not want to be a professional video maker but I love making YouTube videos with my friends. Like that is so fun to me. still like in the editing process I'm like there's so many choices here. But [00:58:00] it's really fun. And if that keeps going well and like that's the game I keep playing and that works out great. But in the meantime I have a career I really like and I can just like treat it like work if I want to or I can get really invested. And so yeah I don't even know where I started now but that's a huge thing. I see a lot of artists missing when they're trying to create content is like is this something I actually enjoy? And would I want to do a thousand of Stephen: Yeah. And so going back to the start of that of thinking about what do you think is your strength or your superpower as you put it? Yeah. that's a good question you know especially for content. For me I think I'm I'm looking for that. We'll see. but I would say that in my professional life my superpower is probably the ability to sort of edit or curate. A lot of times as the producer you know we've got the songwriters ideas and then maybe there's a session musician coming in or it's the ability to sort of say I want that part and that part and that part because it's usually there's a case of. I could do this. I could do that. I've got this idea. I don't know. They all work. And my superpower is being able to kind of [00:59:00] quickly say that's the one. Cut out that. That needs to go. We can keep this and let's move on. with helping other artists too if they're coming in and saying I don't know I can make this kind of content this kind of thing that's the one I think you connect with you know whether or not I'm always right I can make up my mind quickly when it comes to curation and editing down the what I think are the best parts for my taste. Taylor: Yes okay that's so cool. it's like the producer role really. defining all of like the right pieces to make the pie something unique. that's so fun. That's the magic about working with other people is everybody brings something different to the table. I think what's really hard starting out as like a creative is I need to DIY everything because like budget limitations whatever. But you can get caught in that where it's like you can DIY yourself to death. And where your art will suffer like the things you want to make will suffer because you're not working with different people. You're not having different flavors. especially like in my line of work it's very technical. like songwriting and stuff is fun and kind of like theoretical. But [01:00:00] then with like audio it gets really technical. And we're talking about like measuring decibel levels and LUFS RMS like all these like acronyms or whatever. But when you work with other people they can add those things to your project if you don't get like stuck in the I need to do everything I need to do whatever. So don't DIY yourself to death. collaborating is magic and that's kind of the way you learn and grow. people are going to see your art different ways and especially as you try to progress if you feel like you're at a plateau maybe show it to ten more people than you normally would. Maybe post it like before it's ready. you'll get feedback. You know? Yeah you might have some trolls or whatever but what did the trolls say that was maybe accurate? Like was it boring? you know if they say something mean about you like how do you lean into it? like use what you have to like keep going. and figure out your own game if like in your own superpower like maybe my superpower is to be funny Maybe my superpower is to write songs about every day. pick out the parts of this weird AI thing that Will make people laugh or make people cry maybe you can make something that's 15 [01:01:00] seconds long that makes people completely change their mind about something those are all like very different skills And I've seen people with all of those skills individually that when they bring it to another project with somebody with a different strength It just makes all the difference It was like that Music producer from buddy of mine where he's like if you have one hit one thing that works and you put it with another hit You're going to have a hit maybe it's like on different levels of success like I think there was a really good concept. I heard where it's like viral for me which think the term viral is really funny but what is a good measure of success like for me at this stage? if I post this like maybe my personal best is 30 views. How do I get 35 views? Or what would I have to do to make this video get 3 000 views? Because that's a huge leap. Or 300 views. do I need to start it faster? Do I need to not go like Oh hi today. The best thing that you can do today if you're making something is and then like give your best advice or whatever. figuring out those little tweaks to kind of like exhibit your superpowers I think is also very smart but in that sustainable Stephen: Yeah. If you have a sense of what you're really good [01:02:00] at then find other creators that are doing that. Watch their content see what works and start there. It's totally fine to emulate and to copy formats and to just try what has already been done. And see how it works for your audience. Because you're going to naturally do it differently. You're gonna do it in your own voice and your own style. I think a lot of people worry about like Well I don't want to rip somebody off. But it's like How did you start learning an instrument? You start by playing somebody else's song. You pick it up you play a cover song and you copy and you do that for a long time before you really start to create something of your own. And that's okay. That's totally fine because you play it a little bit differently. Same thing with content. So if you do know what you're maybe like I want to make this kind of content I want to do this thing. Great. Look for creators that are doing that and try to copy. Copy everything down to like how they format it how long it is how they do their hook how they do their caption or description. I mean obviously don't rip somebody off a hundred percent but like follow the format and start there and learn from it. And then if you're not sure if you're like man I just don't know what makes me unique. I don't. And you're still sort of [01:03:00] looking for your brand your angle on on your artistry and how you want to do it then just experiment. That's probably also the time either start making a lot of stuff or reach out to somebody else try to get some objective opinions about your stuff a little bit because you might just be in your head too much. Taylor: I think that's a really big pitfall of a lot of us who like to make things. It's like we spend so much time like worrying and thinking about things that we're creating problems that aren't really there. Stephen: guilty. Taylor: Every day. Stephen: DIY to death is a true thing. And I was talking with Chris Kosa for an episode. and you know he was saying DIY is a myth. You have to have other people involved along the way to make it work to last. There are going to be seasons where maybe you are more DIY or maybe a project where you just feel like I need to hold it close and do everything and that's okay. it's probably not going to be that way forever. At some point you're going to have to find teammates and people to help you that also care about this. If only for feedback but probably to actually do some work too. Taylor: what's hard to in that [01:04:00] DIY stage is the balance between earning and learning. Like Warren Buffet said like Sometimes it's way more valuable to learn than it is to earn. And that's like from one of the richest people ever. so Focusing on like what can I learn? What skills can I get better on in every stage of your growth? That is something I stumbled onto where I knew like I just needed to get as much experience in audio as I could. And so I did live sound. And I was like essentially I was mixing albums like in 40 minutes. Or whatever however long a show was. It was like I had to mix an album in 40 minutes. And so I got really good at identifying EQs and like and different frequencies and things like that. Like like what are these like micro skills that I need to learn? But then also like how am I measuring success as I go? And then when do I need to hand it off to others? when is my instinct to do it myself holding me back? And like am I creating like my own upper limit? so often we can hold ourselves back because of Oh we don't want to show it to somebody else or Oh we don't want to post it because we don't like the way we look. It's like you never know like sometimes that little quirk about you is what people [01:05:00] actually love about you. a good buddy he like brought a song into the studio. He's like I don't like this thing I do with my mixing. Like is it my speakers? Do I need new gear or whatever? and the two of us who were like listening back we're like That's what we love about this song. about all your music is it has this kind of like it was like I don't know it was like some bump in the low mids or something like that where he was like I feel like this is a problem. We're like no like that's what we love about your music is like it creates a certain kind of feel. And he was just like Oh maybe I don't need to worry about them. Yeah. And like some problems are not problems. by bringing it to other people and like getting out of the DIY bubble Stephen: totally. Well man I don't want to keep you here all day. I really appreciate this conversation. I feel like we touched on a lot. is there anything that you would want to sort of emphasize kind of reflecting back at your own journey both on making your own content but also editing and fixing a lot of other people's content just as kind of a last reminder to people of what you think is the recipe for. getting started or improving on being a content creator. Taylor: Yes. absolutely in [01:06:00] any creative career. The biggest thing I see as people forget is dreams change and that's okay. I think for so long like in the like indie music world it was like don't sell out. Don't do this. I was like no dreams change like and that's okay. And just like going with that process like you know for a while it was like I wanted to be a performer. And then I was a performer and I realized I didn't like that as much. And I went to doing more technical stuff. I was like Oh there's a limit to how much of this I can do. And so then I started moving into like making more things trying different things like moving between industries with a similar skillset. And then my dreams change. And now like I figured out that I like the business kind of creative side just as much as like the art creative side. And that's okay. And that's me. And that's what makes me unique. And so Being okay with dreams changing is fine. I think there's so many people I see who try to do the thing that like they were always good at they keep doing it and then they end up miserable because they sacrifice more than [01:07:00] they wanted to. And they didn't realize it because they thought their dreams could never change. it's okay to get old. It's okay to like change with your age. To have your dreams change as you get older like pivot evolved like that's what we're here to do especially like in like the context of content creation or pursuing a creative career like embrace the evolution embrace the change embrace the new dreams Stephen: Yeah. Your first idea doesn't have to be the best one in the last one. Taylor: exactly. Stephen: Well thanks so much for sharing that. If people want to connect with you learn more about you where would you like to send them? Taylor: I'm most active on Instagram. TheTaylorLewin Otherwise taylorlewin. com is where I have more stuff. My company underscoreaudio. co is where I post more of my like brand stuff but they're pretty much the same. and then on YouTube at taylorlewin is my Stephen: Yeah. Check out check out the YouTube channel. It's great. Taylor: Yeah let me know what you like. I love like talking about all this stuff too. So we got to talk more Stephen: Definitely. Thanks for being here. I'm going to put all those links in the show notes.[01:08:00] if you're still watching I would also love your feedback. Please send me an email. Stephen at secrets from the scene. com. That'll be in the show notes as well. What do you like about these episodes? What do you not like? if you're enjoying it I always appreciate if you hit subscribe like or share it with a friend but your feedback is really really valuable. So hit me up and let me know. Thanks for listening.